Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 This points/progress argument needs to be moved to the boring thread. It could be easily ended if those who advocated it throughout the season had the good grace to admit that the only reason they reject this method now is down to it not suiting their argument anymore. FTR, I never advocated that. I just recognise that those people who did won't admit what you're looking for. That's the problem after pages and pages of debate, people won't reform their opinion even if they know they are/were talking bollocks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Or just arbitrarily move the goalposts. Or just be vague about what they want so they can still moan regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted April 10, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted April 10, 2014 At the start of the season I said I wanted to see progression. With this I stated I wanted to see us finish higher up in the table, not accumulate more points. How does more teams doing worse than previous years show Lambert's progressed. Points show how you've done over 38 games. If we end up with less then we've done worse over 38 games regardless of league position. League position is the important factor as everyone wants to finish as high in the league as possible but its not an accurate measure of progress from the previous year. Points are. So if Man City win the league this season on 80 points, but finish in second place next season on 90 points, they've progressed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Or just arbitrarily move the goalposts. Or just be vague about what they want so they can still moan regardless. I love the use of the word "regardless" in your sentence. It hints heavily that there isn't really anything to be upset about. Apart from the crap football, heavy defeats, piss poor defence, cup exits, worst ever home record and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 This points/progress argument needs to be moved to the boring thread. It could be easily ended if those who advocated it throughout the season had the good grace to admit that the only reason they reject this method now is down to it not suiting their argument anymore. FTR, I never advocated that. I just recognise that those people who did won't admit what you're looking for. That's the problem after pages and pages of debate, people won't reform their opinion even if they know they are/were talking bollocks. Sadly this is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 At the start of the season I said I wanted to see progression. With this I stated I wanted to see us finish higher up in the table, not accumulate more points. How does more teams doing worse than previous years show Lambert's progressed. Points show how you've done over 38 games. If we end up with less then we've done worse over 38 games regardless of league position. League position is the important factor as everyone wants to finish as high in the league as possible but its not an accurate measure of progress from the previous year. Points are. So if Man City win the league this season on 80 points, but finish in second place next season on 90 points, they've progressed? Pointwise yes, positionwise no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted April 10, 2014 Moderator Share Posted April 10, 2014 At the start of the season I said I wanted to see progression. With this I stated I wanted to see us finish higher up in the table, not accumulate more points. How does more teams doing worse than previous years show Lambert's progressed. Points show how you've done over 38 games. If we end up with less then we've done worse over 38 games regardless of league position. League position is the important factor as everyone wants to finish as high in the league as possible but its not an accurate measure of progress from the previous year. Points are. So if Man City win the league this season on 80 points, but finish in second place next season on 90 points, they've progressed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Or just arbitrarily move the goalposts. Or just be vague about what they want so they can still moan regardless. I love the use of the word "regardless" in your sentence. It hints heavily that there isn't really anything to be upset about. Apart from the crap football, heavy defeats, piss poor defence, cup exits, worst ever home record and so on. Infer away lad, I don't mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 (edited) At the start of the season I said I wanted to see progression. With this I stated I wanted to see us finish higher up in the table, not accumulate more points. How does more teams doing worse than previous years show Lambert's progressed. Points show how you've done over 38 games. If we end up with less then we've done worse over 38 games regardless of league position. League position is the important factor as everyone wants to finish as high in the league as possible but its not an accurate measure of progress from the previous year. Points are.So if Man City win the league this season on 80 points, but finish in second place next season on 90 points, they've progressed? They'd have done better than the previous year over 38 games but another team would have improved more. You get points based on what results you get over 38 games. League position depends on what other teams do that have nothing to do with us. Edited April 10, 2014 by Big_John_10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Why don't we all wait and see what the points and position are at the end of the season. My guess is that both will be worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 The only thing that matters at the end of the season is your league position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 At the start of the season I said I wanted to see progression. With this I stated I wanted to see us finish higher up in the table, not accumulate more points. How does more teams doing worse than previous years show Lambert's progressed. Points show how you've done over 38 games. If we end up with less then we've done worse over 38 games regardless of league position. League position is the important factor as everyone wants to finish as high in the league as possible but its not an accurate measure of progress from the previous year. Points are.So if Man City win the league this season on 80 points, but finish in second place next season on 90 points, they've progressed? They'd have done better than the previous year over 38 games but another team would have improved more. You get points based on what results you get over 38 games. League position depends on what other teams do that have nothing to do with us. So what will their owner look at? Points or league position? Has a manager that's won the league veer been sacked becuase even though they've won the league they've ended up on less points meaning they've gone backwards? Was redknapp sacked for finishing on a record number of points for spurs? Or was he sacked because they didn't get champs league at the end of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Why don't we all wait and see what the points and position are at the end of the season. My guess is that both will be worse. And no doubt there will still be an excuse and more changing of the goalposts by the usual suspects if this does transpire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 The only thing that matters at the end of the season is your league position. The league position is important. I'd rather finish 10th on 45 pts than 13th on 48 points But its not an accurate measure of your improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Why don't we all wait and see what the points and position are at the end of the season. My guess is that both will be worse. And no doubt there will still be an excuse and more changing of the goalposts by the usual suspects if this does transpire. He just said why don't we all wait and see what happens at the end of the season, a very good idea in my opinion, yet you're still talking about things that haven't actually occurred yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Why don't we all wait and see what the points and position are at the end of the season. My guess is that both will be worse. And no doubt there will still be an excuse and more changing of the goalposts by the usual suspects if this does transpire. He just said why don't we all wait and see what happens at the end of the season, a very good idea in my opinion, yet you're still talking about things that haven't actually occurred yet. Which is why I said the word 'if'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 The only thing that matters at the end of the season is your league position. The league position is important. I'd rather finish 10th on 45 pts than 13th on 48 points But its not an accurate measure of your improvement It's all relative though - if you finish 10th, you're better than 10 other teams, if you finish 13th, you're only better than 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Why don't we all wait and see what the points and position are at the end of the season. My guess is that both will be worse. And no doubt there will still be an excuse and more changing of the goalposts by the usual suspects if this does transpire. He just said why don't we all wait and see what happens at the end of the season, a very good idea in my opinion, yet you're still talking about things that haven't actually occurred yet. Which is why I said the word 'if'... Bit of a strange thing to assume though, surely you would rather we actually improve than hoping to win a petty argument on VillaTalk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Or just arbitrarily move the goalposts. Or just be vague about what they want so they can still moan regardless. And people are always trying to defend the indefensible. Can anyone hand on heart say that they are happy with our points, league position and the entertainment that get served up at VP every other week? We look to be on course to be finishing this season with less points than last and the same or 1 place up in the league and playing a brand or turgid boring football how can anyone call that progress? We are at best standing still and that is not good enough for a club of our stature. I know people like Eames will slam for such a statement but in my opinion the whole malaise at the club has been born out of the shocking management both on and off the pitch. Ideally a new owner and new manager will be the long term solution but short term we cannot enter a new season with Lambert controlling the team and expect to survive in this league. We need a new manager with new ideas as I don't think Lambert's are working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Bit of a strange thing to assume though, surely you would rather we actually improve than hoping to win a petty argument on VillaTalk? Nothing in that post suggests I want us not to improve does it? What an extremely odd interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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