Paul Lambert

[Xela]

5 hours ago, Keyblade said:

He deserves credit for unearthing a world class striker who was instrumental in keeping us up 3 times in a row.

Its not like he saw him on a beach like GT saw Yorke. He was scoring goals in a European league 

[TRO]

5 hours ago, Keyblade said:

It's not like he bumped into that signing on the tube or something. He deserves credit for unearthing a world class striker who was instrumental in keeping us up 3 times in a row.

Instrumental in keeping us up.....yes

World Class striker....No

[Zatman]

10 hours ago, Keyblade said:

It's not like he bumped into that signing on the tube or something. He deserves credit for unearthing a world class striker who was instrumental in keeping us up 3 times in a row.

true but good managers do more than sign 1 good  player and hope he does the business for you

[momo]

10 hours ago, Zatman said:

true but good managers do more than sign 1 good  player and hope he does the business for you

He did sign more than one good player. That their body broke down (Okore, Kozak) was not his fault. And when you must sign your fifth-choice players, because of the £1 budget, it had to be a though getting results for this club.

[lapal_fan]

I think it's important to say that it all depends on the trajectory of the club.  Norwich were down and out when he took over and he got them to mid-table in the PL in 3 seasons.

He took the Villa job because Villa is more prestigious than Norwich, most managers would do the same.

He took over when Villa began austerity (downwards trajectory) and didn't have a PL budget.  Because Lerner wanted to sell.  This causes something no one in any business likes - uncertainty.

So he bought some players who would look at Villa as a "step up" (playing PL, historically being pretty cemented in the league and offer good wages).

With those players he stayed in the league - Job priority 1 - Job done.

Season 2 - buy a few more players who leap a few levels in terms of league/prestige at Villa.. keep us up - Job priority 1 - Job done.

Season 3 - Start well, optimism goes up, Lerner wants to keep the guy who has kept the club in the division despite not giving him PL Budget, offers new contract.  Lambert, even though he knows the club is on a downwards trajectory, takes the contract probably thinking "I deserve this for what I've done". 

Season 3 starts going badly wrong.  We play crap football, the team is completely demoralized because of the austerity/uncertainty in ownership - this creates bad morale and naughtiness in the squad from "senior players" (never heard of him).  We plummet down the league after years of energy sapping austerity, he finally gets sacked looking like a 57 year old divorcee.

Conclusion;

He did what he could with what he was given.  He may or may not have made bad signings/staff recruitment etc, but he did what he was told to do for as long as anybody else (imo) could have done (kept us in the PL).  I sympathise with him more than I slate him.

Key points;

- When recruiting, because of the mega strict wage cap he was enforced, this meant he couldn't buy the experience we so desperately craved.  We couldn't buy the Jedinak's because they didn't fit wage bill.  So we had to buy young players who look at Villa like a step up.  And when you finish 10th or whatever, there aren't many players that fancy going to a team who are obviously cutting back. 

- The contract was stupid - on Lerner's behalf. 

- The kids we played got found out and they weren't as good as we thought they were.

[choffer]

That's pretty much how I see it, @lapal_fan

I always felt sorry for Lambert when most were calling him out for being a see you next Tuesday. Window after window of chronic underinvestment was always going to have the same outcome. I'm sure he now wishes he'd got out before the start of his final season and I wouldn't have blamed him if he had. Highly rated, up-and-coming manager has had the stuffing knocked out of him and his career banjaxed for taking on a challenge that anyone would have failed at. However turgid the last few months were, I fail to see the justification for all the hate.

Hindsight, eh?

[meme]

On 01/09/2016 at 12:29, lapal_fan said:

When recruiting, because of the mega strict wage cap he was enforced

And yet we still end up in the Top 20 list for wage budgets in the world even with the bolded. Shows how incompetent Lerner was/is, in both football management AND business in itself. 

Edited September 2, 2016 by meme

[DCJonah]

On 01/09/2016 at 13:30, choffer said:

That's pretty much how I see it, @lapal_fan

I always felt sorry for Lambert when most were calling him out for being a see you next Tuesday. Window after window of chronic underinvestment was always going to have the same outcome. I'm sure he now wishes he'd got out before the start of his final season and I wouldn't have blamed him if he had. Highly rated, up-and-coming manager has had the stuffing knocked out of him and his career banjaxed for taking on a challenge that anyone would have failed at. However turgid the last few months were, I fail to see the justification for all the hate.

Hindsight, eh?

You felt sorry for him as he watched us lose week in week out, heading for relegation while he waited for his huge pay off? I find that odd. 

He was highly rated, and this tough job under a shit owner didn't help but ultimately he showed he wasn't worth the hype and he wasn't good enough 

Consistently made us worse the longer he spent with us. Over saw the biggest losing mentality I've seen from this team and played a big part in the shit we've become. 

[gharperr]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

You felt sorry for him as he watched us lose week in week out, heading for relegation while he waited for his huge pay off? I find that odd. 

 

and 95% of people would do the same. 
The owner handicapped his success which would lead to future loss of earnings. i dont really have a problem for him waiting to get sacked instead of walking

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, gharperr said:

 

[DCJonah]

7 minutes ago, gharperr said:

and 95% of people would do the same. 
The owner handicapped his success which would lead to future loss of earnings. i dont really have a problem for him waiting to get sacked instead of walking

I can't get my head round why you'd have no issue with him waiting for a pay off while the club you support lose every week and head for relegation. 

[gharperr]

because i dont try view things from one side.

[choffer]

16 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You felt sorry for him as he watched us lose week in week out, heading for relegation while he waited for his huge pay off? I find that odd. 

He was highly rated, and this tough job under a shit owner didn't help but ultimately he showed he wasn't worth the hype and he wasn't good enough 

Consistently made us worse the longer he spent with us. Over saw the biggest losing mentality I've seen from this team and played a big part in the shit we've become. 

Your thoughts on the subject are well documented. Other perspectives are available

 

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, gharperr said:

because i dont try view things from one side.

This isn't a jury in a courtroom. It's your team. The team that has been around for over a hundred years and will be here hopefully for another hundred. And some of the worst results and football in that clubs history were while you were happy for a manager, with no real connection to us, waited to be paid millions. 

Madness. 

As a ST holder who fell out of love with the club and the sport because of the job he did, I can only say I strongly disagree.

[rjw63]

5 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

This isn't a jury in a courtroom. It's your team. The team that has been around for over a hundred years and will be here hopefully for another hundred. And some of the worst results and football in that clubs history were while you were happy for a manager, with no real connection to us, waited to be paid millions. 

Madness. 

As a ST holder who fell out of love with the club and the sport because of the job he did, I can only say I strongly disagree.

Agree, I don't go anymore because of this **** and I was a regular since 1976

[Zatman]

He killed my enjoyment of watching football though after a brief turnaround under Sherwood then Remi Garde tried putting the nail in the coffin

[gharperr]

21 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

This isn't a jury in a courtroom. It's your team. The team that has been around for over a hundred years and will be here hopefully for another hundred. And some of the worst results and football in that clubs history were while you were happy for a manager, with no real connection to us, waited to be paid millions. 

Madness. 

 

so? what difference does that make? If the same scenario happened at watford...where owner massively handicapped success of a manager...and the job was going to pretty much always end up in failure (with hindsight and shown with managers after lambert)...resulting in that manager earning less in the next job...i wouldnt have a problem with him doing it there.  Dont see why that point of view has to change just because its the club i support.

And i would do exact same in his shoes. and so would you.

Edited September 4, 2016 by gharperr

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, gharperr said:

so? what difference does that make? If the same scenario happened at watford...where owner massively handicapped success of a manager...and the job was going to pretty much always end up in failure (with hindsight)...resulting in that manager earning less in the next job...i wouldnt have a problem with him doing it.  Dont see why that point of view has to change just because its the club i support.

It's a pointless debate if you're putting Paul Lambert and the club you support on the same level. Like I said, it seems very strange to me but you're entitled to do it. I just disagree completely with it. 

 

[VillaChris]

September 2014 has to be one of the most mentally disturbed months for decisions this club has ever seen.

Within a couple of weeks we'd given new contracts to Gabby, Hutton and Lambert.

Hutton will be released on a free transfer in the summer but the other two really defied belief at the time and still do.

[Jarpie]

I can't feel sorry for managers or players for getting shitcanned or having pressure, stress or expectations because A] they know what's involved with public job like that and B] they get great pay/compensation for it.

Lambert did mostly horrible job being our manager and he got paid fortunes for it. 

Edited September 4, 2016 by Jarpie