VillanousOne Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 So he is definitely coming to us then? It sounds like talks happened but nothing beyond that. As usual one news outlet broke the story and every other one then regurgitated that story almost word for word, followed by random interviews of Irish celebs/players speculating and giving rubbish opinions. Sky Sports will do their trade mark 'Sky Sports Understands' soon to make out they know something someone else doesn't, but it will be tosh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Then left them when they were in the bottom three in the Premiership and got Ipswich to 19th in the Championship before being sacked. I'm not sure being in the bottom 3 with a newly promoted side is exactly a failure. As for Ipswich, I thought he finished 15th... Anyway... its all fairly irrelevant given that he isn't being appointed as our manager. There are plenty of people who have been very successful as number 2's and total failures as managers when trying to go it alone. I will judge Keane as an assistant manager on his time here rather than the time he has previously spent in an entirely different role. I think when Keane left Ipswich they were 19th. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Keane We'll have to agree to differ then because as I've already said there are elements within a manager's job than can also be transferred to a number two and vice versa such as system choice and getting the players to play within the system and motivational skills. Keane has been found wanting on both even back in the Championship so on that basis it's certainly not nonsense to question his probable appointment with us and if you include his temperament on and off the pitch especially since we've already sacked a coach, or coaches for bullying for me it really isn't the way to go. Like I said, there are countless examples of amazing assistants being crap managers and vice versa. Obviously you need some skills in both jobs. But the point is being bad at one job doesn't mean you'll be bad at the other. So citing Keane's managerial record as evidence that he'll be a crap assistant doesn't make much sense, especially as it's not even that bad. Which is a fair point to make but its also more than a fair to suggest that as there are similarities between both jobs you can at least form an opinion on ability to motivate which is a common denominator for both jobs and due to Keane's temperament including walking out on Ireland i'm not sure we should gamble on that sort of destabilisation. My main worry is that if we don't get a new owner before the summer window closes then we are in for another relegation struggle and I wonder how Keane would react under that pressure? Your definition of bad also differs from mine so really there's no common ground for further debate on this so i'm going to pull the shutters down and leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 4, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted June 4, 2014 Then left them when they were in the bottom three in the Premiership and got Ipswich to 19th in the Championship before being sacked. I'm not sure being in the bottom 3 with a newly promoted side is exactly a failure. As for Ipswich, I thought he finished 15th... Anyway... its all fairly irrelevant given that he isn't being appointed as our manager. There are plenty of people who have been very successful as number 2's and total failures as managers when trying to go it alone. I will judge Keane as an assistant manager on his time here rather than the time he has previously spent in an entirely different role. I think when Keane left Ipswich they were 19th. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Keane We'll have to agree to differ then because as I've already said there are elements within a manager's job than can also be transferred to a number two and vice versa such as system choice and getting the players to play within the system and motivational skills. Keane has been found wanting on both even back in the Championship so on that basis it's certainly not nonsense to question his probable appointment with us and if you include his temperament on and off the pitch especially since we've already sacked a coach, or coaches for bullying for me it really isn't the way to go. Like I said, there are countless examples of amazing assistants being crap managers and vice versa. Obviously you need some skills in both jobs. But the point is being bad at one job doesn't mean you'll be bad at the other. So citing Keane's managerial record as evidence that he'll be a crap assistant doesn't make much sense, especially as it's not even that bad. Which is a fair point to make but its also more than a fair to suggest that as there are similarities between both jobs you can at least form an opinion on ability to motivate which is a common denominator for both jobs and due to Keane's temperament including walking out on Ireland i'm not sure we should gamble on that sort of destabilisation. My main worry is that if we don't get a new owner before the summer window closes then we are in for another relegation struggle and I wonder how Keane would react under that pressure? Your definition of bad also differs from mine so really there's no common ground for further debate on this so i'm going to pull the shutters down and leave it. He seemed fine at motivating Sunderland when they were winning the Championship. He's had 2 jobs. One he did fine in, one he didn't. It's hardly disastrous for a manager in his first ever jobs. There's no more sense in assuming he'll be crap at motivating because he didn't do well at Ipswich than there is in me saying he'll be great at motivating because he did well at Sunderland. It's selective whichever way you look at it. He didn't walk out on Ireland. They sent him home. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andykeenan Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Need bit of fire in there belly won't take any slaking give em kick up the back side they need cuz some do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted June 4, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted June 4, 2014 Choffer "understands" he flew to the US yesterday. Make of that what you will. Mate of mine tried to engage him in conversation at Heathrow. Said he lives up to his reputation as a grumpy bugger but did pose (with a scowl) for a photos with my pal's two young boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Choffer "understands" he flew to the US yesterday. Make of that what you will. Mate of mine tried to engage him in conversation at Heathrow. Said he lives up to his reputation as a grumpy bugger but did pose (with a scowl) for a photos with my pal's two young boys. the Ireland tour is in US this week so that's what I made of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted June 4, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) Choffer "understands" he flew to the US yesterday. Make of that what you will. Mate of mine tried to engage him in conversation at Heathrow. Said he lives up to his reputation as a grumpy bugger but did pose (with a scowl) for a photos with my pal's two young boys. the Ireland tour is in US this week so that's what I made of it Had a feeling there'd be an obvious explanation You did spoil the fun a bit though - I was hoping the conspiracy theorists would presume it was for a meeting with the new owner Edited June 4, 2014 by choffer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Then left them when they were in the bottom three in the Premiership and got Ipswich to 19th in the Championship before being sacked. I'm not sure being in the bottom 3 with a newly promoted side is exactly a failure. As for Ipswich, I thought he finished 15th... Anyway... its all fairly irrelevant given that he isn't being appointed as our manager. There are plenty of people who have been very successful as number 2's and total failures as managers when trying to go it alone. I will judge Keane as an assistant manager on his time here rather than the time he has previously spent in an entirely different role. I think when Keane left Ipswich they were 19th. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Keane We'll have to agree to differ then because as I've already said there are elements within a manager's job than can also be transferred to a number two and vice versa such as system choice and getting the players to play within the system and motivational skills. Keane has been found wanting on both even back in the Championship so on that basis it's certainly not nonsense to question his probable appointment with us and if you include his temperament on and off the pitch especially since we've already sacked a coach, or coaches for bullying for me it really isn't the way to go. Like I said, there are countless examples of amazing assistants being crap managers and vice versa. Obviously you need some skills in both jobs. But the point is being bad at one job doesn't mean you'll be bad at the other. So citing Keane's managerial record as evidence that he'll be a crap assistant doesn't make much sense, especially as it's not even that bad. Which is a fair point to make but its also more than a fair to suggest that as there are similarities between both jobs you can at least form an opinion on ability to motivate which is a common denominator for both jobs and due to Keane's temperament including walking out on Ireland i'm not sure we should gamble on that sort of destabilisation. My main worry is that if we don't get a new owner before the summer window closes then we are in for another relegation struggle and I wonder how Keane would react under that pressure? Your definition of bad also differs from mine so really there's no common ground for further debate on this so i'm going to pull the shutters down and leave it. He seemed fine at motivating Sunderland when they were winning the Championship. He's had 2 jobs. One he did fine in, one he didn't. It's hardly disastrous for a manager in his first ever jobs. There's no more sense in assuming he'll be crap at motivating because he didn't do well at Ipswich than there is in me saying he'll be great at motivating because he did well at Sunderland. It's selective whichever way you look at it. He didn't walk out on Ireland. They sent him home. I wouldn't say he did a fine job at Sunderland. He spent a phenomenal amount of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I think it's a poor appointment if it happens, purely because he isn't what we need is he? Both Lambert and Keane are managers, not coaches. Neither of them, as far as I know, hold the majority of sessions day to day, do we not need someone who can do that. Obviously the players will all say he's brilliant whenever asked, but I'd have liked to have seen a coach come in to work alongside Cowans and Lambert personally. Guess this mean Lambert is staying as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Keane will only be the assistant! I dont rate him as a manager, but being an assistant is more like being a captain was back in the day - one of our major problems is that we have no leaders, on or off the pitch. I can't imagine him having too much influence on training etc (some, but not too much) but he'll the one screaming at players and getting them all fired up. If he does come in I can't see any more lethargic games where the players seemingly don't give a damn, and that can only be a good thing! I don't think we lack much effort or "passion". We lack quality and belief in ourselves; the football has been drummed out of them by a lack of direction on the training pitch for 2 years now. It can only return through some proper coaching and results on the pitch. Wonder what we're paying Keane? Surely a biggish whack for an assistant manager? Does this mean a sale is a long way off? Or has one happened already!? So many questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I think it's a poor appointment if it happens, purely because he isn't what we need is he? Both Lambert and Keane are managers, not coaches. Neither of them, as far as I know, hold the majority of sessions day to day, do we not need someone who can do that. Obviously the players will all say he's brilliant whenever asked, but I'd have liked to have seen a coach come in to work alongside Cowans and Lambert personally. Guess this mean Lambert is staying as well. What is does do is give Lambert another scapegoat which he can hide behind and use as an excuse for the poor performances which I imagine we will see on the pitch next season. So maybe Keane is a good appointment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I don't know whether its going to work out or not but I love the man myself. There was no bigger competitor and the players are going to respect him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) Then left them when they were in the bottom three in the Premiership and got Ipswich to 19th in the Championship before being sacked. I'm not sure being in the bottom 3 with a newly promoted side is exactly a failure. As for Ipswich, I thought he finished 15th... Anyway... its all fairly irrelevant given that he isn't being appointed as our manager. There are plenty of people who have been very successful as number 2's and total failures as managers when trying to go it alone. I will judge Keane as an assistant manager on his time here rather than the time he has previously spent in an entirely different role. I think when Keane left Ipswich they were 19th. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Keane We'll have to agree to differ then because as I've already said there are elements within a manager's job than can also be transferred to a number two and vice versa such as system choice and getting the players to play within the system and motivational skills. Keane has been found wanting on both even back in the Championship so on that basis it's certainly not nonsense to question his probable appointment with us and if you include his temperament on and off the pitch especially since we've already sacked a coach, or coaches for bullying for me it really isn't the way to go. Like I said, there are countless examples of amazing assistants being crap managers and vice versa. Obviously you need some skills in both jobs. But the point is being bad at one job doesn't mean you'll be bad at the other. So citing Keane's managerial record as evidence that he'll be a crap assistant doesn't make much sense, especially as it's not even that bad. Which is a fair point to make but its also more than a fair to suggest that as there are similarities between both jobs you can at least form an opinion on ability to motivate which is a common denominator for both jobs and due to Keane's temperament including walking out on Ireland i'm not sure we should gamble on that sort of destabilisation. My main worry is that if we don't get a new owner before the summer window closes then we are in for another relegation struggle and I wonder how Keane would react under that pressure? Your definition of bad also differs from mine so really there's no common ground for further debate on this so i'm going to pull the shutters down and leave it. He seemed fine at motivating Sunderland when they were winning the Championship. He's had 2 jobs. One he did fine in, one he didn't. It's hardly disastrous for a manager in his first ever jobs. There's no more sense in assuming he'll be crap at motivating because he didn't do well at Ipswich than there is in me saying he'll be great at motivating because he did well at Sunderland. It's selective whichever way you look at it. He didn't walk out on Ireland. They sent him home. Since you wish to pursue this then i will grant you your wish. He didn't do a fine job at Sunderland. Yes he got them promoted and after spending 80m left them in relegation trouble. How on anyone's planet is that doing a fine job. O'Neill got a lot of stick from fans for spending that kind of money and getting us to sixth. According to media reports the players at Sunderland actually celebrated when he left as they were so glad to see the back of him. Yes he was sent home but you don't mention the circumstances behind that. He announced that he was pulling out of the squad due to poor training facilities, travel arrangements and so on and then had a change of mind. He then verbally abused the manager. He forced the issue knowing full well what was going to happen and gave the manager little choice but to act. Edited June 4, 2014 by shaggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 When the players come face to face with Roy Keane in the dressing room, do you think they see Roy Keane the ex-Sunderland and Ipswich manager, or Roy Keane the Manchester United captain that won countless domestic titles and the Champions League? I think the role of no.2 is perfect for him. No chequebook responsibility as the manager, but if he can instill some of that steel and winning mentality into the players then it's a no-brainer for me. When your management team have as many honours as PL and RK I think it brings a new level of respect from the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I can imagine Keane having a great impact on Westwood and Delph in particular. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 When the players come face to face with Roy Keane in the dressing room, do you think they see Roy Keane the ex-Sunderland and Ipswich manager, or Roy Keane the Manchester United captain that won countless domestic titles and the Champions League? I think the role of no.2 is perfect for him. No chequebook responsibility as the manager, but if he can instill some of that steel and winning mentality into the players then it's a no-brainer for me. When your management team have as many honours as PL and RK I think it brings a new level of respect from the players. Lambert winning the European Cup had no influence whatsoever on the team during his time here. I don't see a failed manager coming in even if it is Roy Keane will make any difference to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 There's only so much an assistant can do. He's not going to make us world beaters and he's not going to relegate us. While Lerner is still here any people coming into the club are short term thoughts to helping us survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 When the players come face to face with Roy Keane in the dressing room, do you think they see Roy Keane the ex-Sunderland and Ipswich manager, or Roy Keane the Manchester United captain that won countless domestic titles and the Champions League? I think the role of no.2 is perfect for him. No chequebook responsibility as the manager, but if he can instill some of that steel and winning mentality into the players then it's a no-brainer for me. When your management team have as many honours as PL and RK I think it brings a new level of respect from the players. Lambert winning the European Cup had no influence whatsoever on the team during his time here. I don't see a failed manager coming in even if it is Roy Keane will make any difference to that. I disagree. Roy Keane is as high profile a player as you get. I wouldn't be surprised if half our players had no idea that Lambert was a Champions League winner. Roy Keane left Man Utd 9 years ago. Given the age of most of our players, they would've watched him on tv as they were growing up. They'll know all about him and, I'm guessing, that the no.2 will spend more time with them than the manager. I think it's a good move by the club, as we're a bit of a pushover at the moment. There's only so much an assistant can do. He's not going to make us world beaters and he's not going to relegate us. While Lerner is still here any people coming into the club are short term thoughts to helping us survive. Yeah, I too see it as a short-term move, but I doubt we would get a better short-term assistant given the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I think it's a good move by the club, as we're a bit of a pushover at the moment. I've read this kind of thing a few times. Do people really think Keane can teach people his way? I don't believe courage, desire and aggression can be taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I think it's a good move by the club, as we're a bit of a pushover at the moment. I've read this kind of thing a few times. Do people really think Keane can teach people his way? I don't believe courage, desire and aggression can be taught. I honestly don't know BJ, but he will have a wealth of experiences that Culverhouse and Karsa will never have seen. Some of it has to rub off - consciously or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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