thetrees Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Lots of tweets about him being 'brave' and 'courageous'. I am heterosexual, does that mean that I am 'brave' and 'courageous'? No, but then you don't have to be because being heterosexual, sexual relationships between man and women, and committing heterosexual acts between consenting adults have not been the subject of massive discrimination by society, unlike being gay which, until very recently, was actually illegal in the UK until the 1960s, and in some respects (e.g. age of consent) until the 1990s. People who are gay still suffer low-level discrimination (e.g. bed and breakfast owners refusing them rooms on the grounds of religion), and hate crimes. Heterosexuals suffer none of these. And that's just the UK. Best of luck if you are gay and want to live an open life in many parts of Africa, or Russia for example. This seems a bizarre area to depict as "politically correct". So simpering celebrities like Lineker tweeting shallowly about bravery and courage are going to change attitudes in Africa and Russia? Yep, I get that. And regarding low-level discrimination, was that against the B & B owners for their religious beliefs? Because I believe that was the outcome. I have no doubt that a lot more needs to be done in Africa and Russia in particular, but in Western Europe in 2014 being gay is no longer 'queer', it is actually quite normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heid3ster Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Some day we will live in a world like that on board the Star Trek Enterprise, where race and gender and orientation and creed are no more important than the color of one's hair (and drinks in Ten Forward apparently never have to be paid for). You know how we get there? By moving through baby steps like congratulating guys like Hitz for coming out. Each time makes it easier for the next guy (or gal), and the next. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 8, 2014 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2014 Some day we will live in a world like that on board the Star Trek Enterprise, where ... orientation ... are no more important than the color of one's hair. You know how we get there?By inventing inertial dampers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Would be good if some current players came out. Particularly premier league ones get it over with then this sort of headline making will be confined to the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Lots of tweets about him being 'brave' and 'courageous'. I am heterosexual, does that mean that I am 'brave' and 'courageous'? No, but then you don't have to be because being heterosexual, sexual relationships between man and women, and committing heterosexual acts between consenting adults have not been the subject of massive discrimination by society, unlike being gay which, until very recently, was actually illegal in the UK until the 1960s, and in some respects (e.g. age of consent) until the 1990s. People who are gay still suffer low-level discrimination (e.g. bed and breakfast owners refusing them rooms on the grounds of religion), and hate crimes. Heterosexuals suffer none of these. And that's just the UK. Best of luck if you are gay and want to live an open life in many parts of Africa, or Russia for example. This seems a bizarre area to depict as "politically correct". So simpering celebrities like Lineker tweeting shallowly about bravery and courage are going to change attitudes in Africa and Russia? Yep, I get that. And regarding low-level discrimination, was that against the B & B owners for their religious beliefs? Because I believe that was the outcome. I have no doubt that a lot more needs to be done in Africa and Russia in particular, but in Western Europe in 2014 being gay is no longer 'queer', it is actually quite normal. It was only a few years ago that for no real reason, the Holte End would routinely sing about Upson taking it up the arse. Homosexuals aren't being imprisoned anymore, and you're right that it's increasingly accepted in Western Europe, but it isn't in all corners of society in the UK, never mind abroad. And frankly, football fans as a group aren't particularly renowned for being progressive. The more that successful footballers feel comfortable to be open about this, the sooner it stops being an issue. Edited January 8, 2014 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 There aren't many gays playing professional sports so when one comes out it makes the news. A far higher percentage of women who identify as "lesbian" play a professional sport than men who identify as "gay." But you don't get lots of articles about lesbian professional sportswomen. The most common professions for gay men are hairdressing, fashion, acting, not sports. Gay sportsmen are rare and that is the main reason why the average sports team is less forthcoming in accepting gay culture. The sports team atmosphere usually lies on a spectrum between "gay is not an issue" and "gay hostile", rather than between "openly flamboyantly gay" and "gay hostile". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 There aren't many gays playing professional sports so when one comes out it makes the news. A far higher percentage of women who identify as "lesbian" play a professional sport than men who identify as "gay." But you don't get lots of articles about lesbian professional sportswomen. The most common professions for gay men are hairdressing, fashion, acting, not sports. Gay sportsmen are rare and that is the main reason why the average sports team is less forthcoming in accepting gay culture. The sports team atmosphere usually lies on a spectrum between "gay is not an issue" and "gay hostile", rather than between "openly flamboyantly gay" and "gay hostile". Where are the heat maps to back up these stats? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Wasn't hitz around the same time as Postma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 There aren't many gays playing professional sports so when one comes out it makes the news. A far higher percentage of women who identify as "lesbian" play a professional sport than men who identify as "gay." But you don't get lots of articles about lesbian professional sportswomen. The most common professions for gay men are hairdressing, fashion, acting, not sports. Gay sportsmen are rare and that is the main reason why the average sports team is less forthcoming in accepting gay culture. The sports team atmosphere usually lies on a spectrum between "gay is not an issue" and "gay hostile", rather than between "openly flamboyantly gay" and "gay hostile". I would say that statistically a gay sportsperson is as likely as a gay accountant IMO. Is it seemingly rare as less people are prepared to come out, rather than there being less people in the profession? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Wasn't hitz around the same time as Postma He had a girlfriend when he was at villa. Possibly not gay when he played for us ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NurembergVillan Posted January 8, 2014 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2014 Lots of tweets about him being 'brave' and 'courageous'. I am heterosexual, does that mean that I am 'brave' and 'courageous'? No, but then you don't have to be because being heterosexual, sexual relationships between man and women, and committing heterosexual acts between consenting adults have not been the subject of massive discrimination by society, unlike being gay which, until very recently, was actually illegal in the UK until the 1960s, and in some respects (e.g. age of consent) until the 1990s. People who are gay still suffer low-level discrimination (e.g. bed and breakfast owners refusing them rooms on the grounds of religion), and hate crimes. Heterosexuals suffer none of these. And that's just the UK. Best of luck if you are gay and want to live an open life in many parts of Africa, or Russia for example. This seems a bizarre area to depict as "politically correct". So simpering celebrities like Lineker tweeting shallowly about bravery and courage are going to change attitudes in Africa and Russia? Yep, I get that. And regarding low-level discrimination, was that against the B & B owners for their religious beliefs? Because I believe that was the outcome. I have no doubt that a lot more needs to be done in Africa and Russia in particular, but in Western Europe in 2014 being gay is no longer 'queer', it is actually quite normal. But not within the football world, and that's the whole point. If it was such a regular occurrence for players to come out this wouldn't be an issue. He's set a precedent. He's opened up to the world and hopefully enabled a few other guys in the same profession to feel a bit more comfortable in their own skin today. I'm quite sure Lineker wasn't hoping to change attitudes in Africa and Russia. But whether you like it or not he's a role model in this country, and by endorsing what Thomas has done he'll be helping to change attitudes here. It's great that you consider yourself liberal-minded, but the sad reality is that far too many people still don't. Shallow beliefs are held onto, homosexuality is believed to be cured by going to the doctor - the Catholic church still consider it a sin. Racism shouldn't be an issue in society in the modern era. There are plenty of indicators that it still is. Homophobia is equally ridiculous, and only by raising awareness (including through role models making it acceptable) can we prevent people from having to be spat on, abused and waste their life hiding from their true self. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 There aren't many gays playing professional sports so when one comes out it makes the news. A far higher percentage of women who identify as "lesbian" play a professional sport than men who identify as "gay." But you don't get lots of articles about lesbian professional sportswomen. The most common professions for gay men are hairdressing, fashion, acting, not sports. Gay sportsmen are rare and that is the main reason why the average sports team is less forthcoming in accepting gay culture. The sports team atmosphere usually lies on a spectrum between "gay is not an issue" and "gay hostile", rather than between "openly flamboyantly gay" and "gay hostile". How can you know how many gay players there are if they haven't come out yet? It is more acceptable for men to be gay in the arts industries so they will come out with out as much fear but you can't know how many footballers are gay and still too afraid of the reaction to speak about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Some day we will live in a world like that on board the Star Trek Enterprise, where race and gender and orientation and creed are no more important than the color of one's hair (and drinks in Ten Forward apparently never have to be paid for). You know how we get there? By moving through baby steps like congratulating guys like Hitz for coming out. Each time makes it easier for the next guy (or gal), and the next. Not quite "I have a dream", but I like your sentiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 There aren't many gays playing professional sports so when one comes out it makes the news. A far higher percentage of women who identify as "lesbian" play a professional sport than men who identify as "gay." But you don't get lots of articles about lesbian professional sportswomen. The most common professions for gay men are hairdressing, fashion, acting, not sports. Gay sportsmen are rare and that is the main reason why the average sports team is less forthcoming in accepting gay culture. The sports team atmosphere usually lies on a spectrum between "gay is not an issue" and "gay hostile", rather than between "openly flamboyantly gay" and "gay hostile". Of all the posts in this thread, this attempt at some sort of 'analysis' is the one I find most worrying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BOF Posted January 8, 2014 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2014 Not sure I want a heat map either. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 So shummi isn't the only german sportsman with skid marks on his helmet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I mean, if I was to walk into a changing room full of women they'd either rape me or call the police. Ha ha. I meant, they'd either fancy me enough to shag me, or, they'd call the police because they'd think I'm a pervy bloke! But, I doubt they'd wanna gang up on me so they'd most likely call the police. Is that so difficult to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AVFCforever1991 Posted January 8, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2014 I mean, if I was to walk into a changing room full of women they'd either rape me or call the police. Ha ha. I meant, they'd either fancy me enough to shag me, or, they'd call the police because they'd think I'm a pervy bloke! But, I doubt they'd wanna gang up on me so they'd most likely call the police. Is that so difficult to understand? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I just dont get why anyone would be bothered about who he likes/sleeps with. because it is good for the gay lobby. Lots of tweets about him being 'brave' and 'courageous'. I am heterosexual, does that mean that I am 'brave' and 'courageous'? Thomas is a nice guy, an average footballer who became a cult figure at the Villa. He was a nice guy before we knew he was gay, and he is still a nice guy. But as a news item, it is only trumped up by the overly politically correct media. So the PM's were just a tease. Devastated 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 my 2 pence I agree that a gay footballer is as likely as a gay accountant, unfortunately in the media id say there is a skewed % of gay men whereas the % of openly gay men in the country is about 1.5%, so that's 8 players (out of 500, 20 x 25 man squads) that's not many, would however disagree that there MUST be gay footballers which is often suggested I'd also guess that players who are still playing aren't coming out because they don't want the shit that comes with it, and I don't mean the mindless idiots in the crowd, I think some gay / lesbian organisations are almost desperate for a footballer, and a big name footballer at that, to come out, the intrusion into their life is probably just as unappealing as the thought of the boo boys look at the % of footballers that live their lives through the media, also very low, add those 2 percentages together and its not that surprising that more don't come out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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