villalad21 Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) Bissaka is 100 % finished if Pochettino gets appointed. Attacking fullbacks are crucial in Poch's system. I've hardly seen a more useless fullback than Bissaka going forward. Edited November 5, 2020 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 5, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Mic09 said: The point re 6th is that, statistically over the last 100 games you can make an argument that Man United are heading for a top 6 finish. I didn't say they are aiming for 6th (top 6 is also 2nd or 3rd) but that statistically their results indicate they will win majority of their games which will result in a top 6 finish. Therefore, statistics aren't to be discarded, it's how you use them and what you use them for. Just because I have 2 legs and my dog has 4 doesn't mean that we both have an average of 3 legs. The issue with stats is that they are misleading at best and as you say its how you use them because they are normally used to prove a point not reveal one. By that I mean people usually seem to seek stats that evidence their view and present them in such a way as to do so, which is why I think they should largely be ignored. I also think they should be ignored a lot of the time because the actual stats themselves are meaningless but that is wider point. In terms of the stats in question here, to recap they were as follows. P100 W55 D21 L24 These wherever they originated from were presented in comparison to those for Klopp at Liverpool and done so in a way as to almost justify OGS's performance. Its a "look he isn't doing badly compared to Klopp" and it almost implies especially when posted in tandem with comments like "transition" that the end point for OGS will be the same or similar to that of Liverpool and Klopp when frankly I think that idea is farcical. The stats have no context, they make no consideration for the positions both men inherited the clubs, the playing staff at their disposal or the financial backing provided. It also doesn't take any consideration of the previous managerial performances of the two managers which are likely to be far more indicative of their respective clubs trajectories. There is no context at all just two sets of stats and an attempt to draw a comparison based on those alone. Now, as for the stats themselves once again they aren't like for like because they are just the first 100 games, irrespective of the competition, so they certainly aren't indicative of a PL placing. When looking at the PL games each manager had within their first 100 games you get a different outcome and its Klopp who has the better record of the two. So once again stats are subjective and can be used to demonstrate different things depending upon how they are used. In terms of a projected finish for United, currently they certainly aren't on course for a top 6 finish but will likely end up there or thereabouts. That doesn't though in anyway shape or form to me suggest OGS is doing a good job and I think its pretty hard for anyone to convincing argue that he is, even his pals in the media can only say he needs time but or that he players will get him sacked. OGS is simply a manager doing a poor job, flawed comparisons to Klopp based on stats presented in a particular way do not detract from that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I honestly think it will be a bit like OGS came in after Mourinho e.g. they'll go on a mass winning run. There's some good players there....Greenwood, Martial and Rashord is a more than decent forward line (although far better in counter attacking games) and Cavani decent sub when he gets his fitness up. Problem this year is OGS has fudged up selection. I'd have honestly left De Gea out as he's simply not the same force he was in goal and lets in too many cheap ones now. They should've got a new CB in summer as Maguire-Lindelof is liability combination. Short term Axel will likely get a run under Poch, not sure why he isn't featured since his excellent showing v PSG unless they're worried he'd break down injured given how long he's out. Big problems with balance of midfield. Run in last season they had some pretty good performances v likes of Man. City and Chelsea with Matic-Fred-Fernandes being the middle trio. Seems as soon as Pogba fit he completely upsets the balance now so really he needs to be moved on next summer as he dosen't have that much left on his deal. Still think they're in a better shape than 12 months back as they were putting some terrible 11s out. Likes of Andres Periera and Lingard were regular starters in November 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 5, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Still think they're in a better shape than 12 months back as they were putting some terrible 11s out. Likes of Andres Periera and Lingard were regular starters in November 2019. Squad wise I’d agree but not performance or result wise which points to the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 United are horribly inconsistent under OGS. They have had a few spells of good football and good runs under him and as Rio famously declared once "they''re back", but then had some awful spells too where the players look like they couldn't give a toss. You look through the first 14 and there really isn't any stars in their. Fernandes looks like a top player. Rashford can be fantastic, but can also vanish. Compare to Liverpool & City who they should be competing with and the squads are like chalk and cheese (and United spent a fortune on theirs too). 100 games is quite a long period of time so its a fair stat to use for a high level view of how successful he's been but it doesn't tell the whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 22 minutes ago, Genie said: United are horribly inconsistent under OGS. They have had a few spells of good football and good runs under him and as Rio famously declared once "they''re back", but then had some awful spells too where the players look like they couldn't give a toss. You look through the first 14 and there really isn't any stars in their. Fernandes looks like a top player. Rashford can be fantastic, but can also vanish. Compare to Liverpool & City who they should be competing with and the squads are like chalk and cheese (and United spent a fortune on theirs too). 100 games is quite a long period of time so its a fair stat to use for a high level view of how successful he's been but it doesn't tell the whole story. Its almost as if the players turn up when he is in trouble. They have a comfortable life with him so they doss off until he needs a result His record vs top 6 or in big European games isnt that bad, its the rest of the teams he struggles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Bruno Fernandes has also been found out recently, his penalties are drying up and his performances are poor since then 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 10 minutes ago, Zatman said: Bruno Fernandes has also been found out recently, his penalties are drying up and his performances are poor since then I think they said in the game last night he has scored 3 penalties this season already. He’s on course for about 15-18 goals from the spot in the premier league this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 2 hours ago, VillaChris said: I honestly think it will be a bit like OGS came in after Mourinho e.g. they'll go on a mass winning run. There's some good players there....Greenwood, Martial and Rashord is a more than decent forward line (although far better in counter attacking games) and Cavani decent sub when he gets his fitness up. Problem this year is OGS has fudged up selection. I'd have honestly left De Gea out as he's simply not the same force he was in goal and lets in too many cheap ones now. They should've got a new CB in summer as Maguire-Lindelof is liability combination. Short term Axel will likely get a run under Poch, not sure why he isn't featured since his excellent showing v PSG unless they're worried he'd break down injured given how long he's out. Big problems with balance of midfield. Run in last season they had some pretty good performances v likes of Man. City and Chelsea with Matic-Fred-Fernandes being the middle trio. Seems as soon as Pogba fit he completely upsets the balance now so really he needs to be moved on next summer as he dosen't have that much left on his deal. Still think they're in a better shape than 12 months back as they were putting some terrible 11s out. Likes of Andres Periera and Lingard were regular starters in November 2019. Axel didn't have a good night yesterday thou, only Mata who directly caused a goal got a worse rating out of the outfield players on the stat sides I've seen. Doubt he is the answer short (or long) term tbh. But he needs to stay fit if we're ever going to find out. As much as Lindelöf and Maguire have been unreliable the big issue is that their midfield is not protecting them. Greenwood needs to sort his head out but maybe a new manager can help him with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 8 hours ago, Zatman said: Its almost as if the players turn up when he is in trouble. The will get a result at Everton I think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 Solskjaer dropping Tuanzebe for Lindelöf even thou he is still carrying that back injury that kept him out of the CL game in the week. Bit of a gamble even thou Tuanzebe was poor in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 Man utd have beaten Everton more times than any other club v club in PL history, not paid much attention to it but surprised by that, us vs Utd must be up there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 Bernard copying Grealish there. nice and quick goal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 Calvert-Lewin is going to beat Lindelöf in the air most times. Everton are clearly using this to their advantage and the goal also came from this. Lovely finish by Bernard thou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 So they decide to play for the manager today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 OGS safe for another few matches. Wonder which united will turn up next match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 On 05/11/2020 at 14:04, Zatman said: Bruno Fernandes has also been found out recently, his penalties are drying up and his performances are poor since then Just the 5 goals and 3 assists in the 7 league games this season so far 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 Two good goals today too, found himself in a nice pocket of space but then came alive rather than just sitting in it for the first and then a peach of a ball for the 2nd, great technique if rashford gets anything on it he scores if he doesn't it spins in to the bottom corner anyway, zola was great at doing that from memory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 On 05/11/2020 at 12:59, villalad21 said: Bissaka is 100 % finished if Pochettino gets appointed. Attacking fullbacks are crucial in Poch's system. I've hardly seen a more useless fullback than Bissaka going forward. Hard to believe that he cost them £50m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted November 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2020 6 hours ago, villa4europe said: Two good goals today too, found himself in a nice pocket of space but then came alive rather than just sitting in it for the first and then a peach of a ball for the 2nd, great technique if rashford gets anything on it he scores if he doesn't it spins in to the bottom corner anyway, zola was great at doing that from memory Fernandes was good and their best player. Can't stand him though. Oh, and he was lucky to stay on the pitch with some late challenges. One commentator even said "The opposition are trying to get him sent off" even as they showed the replay of his studs smashing into his opponents ankle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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