VILLAMARV Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 On 26/02/2019 at 18:35, Xela said: Also available in iPlayer. A desperately sad story Saw this too the other day on iplayer. How simple it is for negative behaviours to become normalised. Very honest from the chap in the documentary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I'm guessing the thriller gif with the popcorn would be in incredibly bad taste right now Anyway that documentary is about to start on the 4th channel about now over here if anyone wanted reminding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 On 26/02/2019 at 18:35, Xela said: Also available in iPlayer. A desperately sad story Will be giving this a watch for sure. I wonder how much of it I'll relate too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, VILLAMARV said: I'm guessing the thriller gif with the popcorn would be in incredibly bad taste right now Anyway that documentary is about to start on the 4th channel about now over here if anyone wanted reminding After watching Pt 1 I don't think il be using that "Thriller gif". Won't do any spoilers here but blimey was Jackson one mixed up, manipulative person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted March 6, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 6, 2019 48 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: After watching Pt 1 I don't think il be using that "Thriller gif". Won't do any spoilers here but blimey was Jackson one mixed up, manipulative pedophile. FTFY 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 12 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said: After watching Pt 1 I don't think il be using that "Thriller gif". Won't do any spoilers here but blimey was Jackson one mixed up, manipulative person. he was , but equally I seriously question the parents role in both of those cases ( and the others ) ... You'd almost say If there was a way of prosecuting the parents then someone should do it !! but regarding the documentary , I'm not defending Jackson , i'm staggered he survived as long as he did with people giving him the benefit of the doubt , but I just wonder how much of a one sided job this documentary is ? they did mention 2 at the end of the program in the credits but there are dozens of individuals who spent time with Jackson as kids who continue to assert nothing sexual ever happened . Is there a motive or endgame as to why now ? Ronson testified as an adult at the Jackson trial (perjuring himself based on what he is saying now) and also wrote gushing tributes when MJ died saying he was "the reason I believe in the pure goodness of humankind " ( also written when he was an adult) ... Unless they touch on it in part 2 , there was no mention Ronson trying to hawk a book about his abuse in 2012 or the of the $1.5 bn lawsuit Ronson attempted and that Safechuck claimed he realized he had been abused when he heard Robson's allegations .. they share the same lawyer , are their stories similar because that's exactly what happened , or is there any hint of collusion ? In a lot of instances of abuse , rape etc people got away with it because victims were too scared to come forward , so everything tells me we should be applauding the courage of Ronson and Safechuck in finally speaking out ... but alas I've been around the VT conspiracy thread too long and its also making me question everything , In contrast to Robson and Safechuck’s revised accounts, there is a remarkable consistency to the way people who knew Jackson speak of him , for example 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCDAN Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: they did mention 2 at the end of the program in the credits but there are dozens of individuals who spent time with Jackson as kids who continue to assert nothing sexual ever happened . From what I could gather he generally only had one special friend at a time. That makes sense on many levels not least because they would have been easier to manipulate and control while also manipulating the parents. There's no way he could have been abusing multiple kids all at the same time and gotten away with it, he wasn't an idiot and clearly knew what we was doing and wasn't afraid to play the long game. As his special friends got older they were promptly replaced with a new younger special friend while the older ones were kept sweet enough to not turn on him, all seems to line up pretty nicely to me but of course you can't 100% prove it. Edited March 7, 2019 by AVFCDAN 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Formula 1 - Drive to survive. Binged on this tonight on Netflix. Very interesting insights and behind the scenes into Formula 1 - From team planning at base to the race day itself, this is a fascinating watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 11, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 11, 2019 On 06/03/2019 at 10:35, coda said: Are you planning on watching it? Be interesting to hear a fan's reaction. Watched it over the weekend. It's damning stuff. There are some suspicious things about the two victims, but I have no real reason to think they're lying. Jackon's behaviour even if you don't think he abused kids has always been suspect but explained away by him basically being, psychologically, a child. I believed that myself for a while. So it's not really a huge leap to see that there was a lot more to it. I'd like to see/hear any retorts to the documentary, as I would with any accusations to anyone. Documentaries can be very convincing when you're only hearing one side of the story. BUT, I'd be very surprised if anything could rescue mine and most other people's perception of the man now. I won't stop listening to his music and enjoying his performances though. But that's just me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 23 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I'd like to see/hear any retorts to the documentary there are a few online but essentially they involve the accusers being called out over money and sleeping with Britney Spears as if that's relevant I think it was at the trail where one of the jurors was reported to have said , We thought he is most likely a paedophile but the prosecution didn't convince us he had molested that particular child I guess the documentary kinda ends up giving you the same opinion ... Despite the one sidedness of the program I don't think I was 100% convinced ... probably 99% convinced but still a doubt ..then when you then read the other stuff about these 2 that element of doubt increases .. maybe that's how Jackson got away with it , maybe it's how Saville got away with it for so long , they are calculated in what they were doing As for his music I don't listen to it anyway , but if it came on the radio I doubt I'd go out of my way to switch it off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 14 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: and sleeping with Britney Spears as if that's relevant i think its more character assassination but none of it means that the jacko stuff isnt true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCDAN Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 The issue that arises when you aren't 100% sure Jackson did it, is what evidence do you want? Very few paedophiles who are good at what they do leave an evidence trail. Apart from a video or some DNA on clothing what else is there apart from witness testimony? People point to the fact that they initially defended him as a reason not to believe them now, if anything it makes me more convinced that he did manipulate and groom them into lying for him, that's why its taken therapy and many years since for them to revaluate and come forward. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCDAN Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 On 09/03/2019 at 00:55, AvfcRigo82 said: Formula 1 - Drive to survive. Binged on this tonight on Netflix. Very interesting insights and behind the scenes into Formula 1 - From team planning at base to the race day itself, this is a fascinating watch. This was amazing! I watched the whole 10 episodes on Saturday and couldn't turn it off. Have to admit that despite being an avid fan of F1 once you get past the name and driving record you really do know very little about these drivers. Ocon seems like a lovely bloke and he's very unlucky to lose his drive to Perez and his backing. Also the German guy at Haas is a legend, swears like a trooper and tells it like it is. Also put into perspective that the battles for 9th and 10th which often seems inconsequential is actually massive to some of these teams and drivers. I will certainly appreciate some of the lower order battles a bit more this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 18 minutes ago, AVFCDAN said: This was amazing! I watched the whole 10 episodes on Saturday and couldn't turn it off. Have to admit that despite being an avid fan of F1 once you get past the name and driving record you really do know very little about these drivers. Ocon seems like a lovely bloke and he's very unlucky to lose his drive to Perez and his backing. Also the German guy at Haas is a legend, swears like a trooper and tells it like it is. Also put into perspective that the battles for 9th and 10th which often seems inconsequential is actually massive to some of these teams and drivers. I will certainly appreciate some of the lower order battles a bit more this season. Absolutely. Very hard to switch off once you start watching. Team Haas dude is brilliant and had me in stitches of laughter a few times and like you say, to us viewers, drivers that finish outside the podium do not get much notice but to the teams for their drivers to finish in the top 10 is crucial to many, like that of team Haas etc. Also, the little handbag shenanigans between the French chap at team Renault Sport and Christian Horner at Redbull was also amusing. Again, a great watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 12 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Watched it over the weekend. It's damning stuff. There are some suspicious things about the two victims, but I have no real reason to think they're lying. Jackon's behaviour even if you don't think he abused kids has always been suspect but explained away by him basically being, psychologically, a child. I believed that myself for a while. So it's not really a huge leap to see that there was a lot more to it. I'd like to see/hear any retorts to the documentary, as I would with any accusations to anyone. Documentaries can be very convincing when you're only hearing one side of the story. BUT, I'd be very surprised if anything could rescue mine and most other people's perception of the man now. I won't stop listening to his music and enjoying his performances though. But that's just me. It's difficult to separate the art from the artist but I still watch Woody Allen films despite his creepiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyShears Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 On 05/03/2019 at 11:27, Wainy316 said: Is Michael Jackson's music about to be filed away in the 'never play again' section along with Gary Glitter and R Kelly's? 8 hours ago, coda said: It's difficult to separate the art from the artist but I still watch Woody Allen films despite his creepiness. What about listening to The Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 On 05/03/2019 at 22:48, maqroll said: The first 3 episodes of the strangely titled "Losers" on Netflix are really good. Sports doc. Just finished this. And I agree they are really good. Wasn't expecting much from it but it became rather compelling viewing and they chose to cover some really interesting stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 On 11/03/2019 at 09:15, Stevo985 said: Watched it over the weekend. It's damning stuff. There are some suspicious things about the two victims, but I have no real reason to think they're lying. Jackon's behaviour even if you don't think he abused kids has always been suspect but explained away by him basically being, psychologically, a child. I believed that myself for a while. So it's not really a huge leap to see that there was a lot more to it. I'd like to see/hear any retorts to the documentary, as I would with any accusations to anyone. Documentaries can be very convincing when you're only hearing one side of the story. BUT, I'd be very surprised if anything could rescue mine and most other people's perception of the man now. I won't stop listening to his music and enjoying his performances though. But that's just me. One of the biggest questions people have been raising is why Wade agreed to be witness no.1 for Jackson as an adult and ended up being the primary reason for his not guilty verdicts, and also why would Jackson use someone he abused as his main witness. It’s an argument easily crushed when you think about the psychological control abusers have over their victims, the embarrassment, the pressure of the biggest public trial since OJ or possibly ever, and also that this was someone who had already testified for Jackson and lied in court for him as a teenager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 20, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 20, 2019 25 minutes ago, a m ole said: One of the biggest questions people have been raising is why Wade agreed to be witness no.1 for Jackson as an adult and ended up being the primary reason for his not guilty verdicts, and also why would Jackson use someone he abused as his main witness. It’s an argument easily crushed when you think about the psychological control abusers have over their victims, the embarrassment, the pressure of the biggest public trial since OJ or possibly ever, and also that this was someone who had already testified for Jackson and lied in court for him as a teenager. Yeah that's definitely the most suspicious thing, but like you say I don't think it's enough to say he's not telling the truth. I think when you see what his admissions have done to his family it's pretty hard to see that he'd be sticking to the lie at this stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Just watched this on BBC 2. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09m60sk Surgeons: At the Edge of Life - BBC 2 Showing Surgeons with real life operations fro QE Birmingham. Not for the squeamish as is shows operations in progress. Absolutely remarkable levels of skill with real high risk. Incredible stuff. These surgeons and their teams are real special people and have the utmost respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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