Risso Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 MysteryMan Ah OK. The same Mysteryman who assured people that there was no way on earth that McLeish would be joining? If he said it was 2012 I'd check the calendar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 15, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 15, 2012 Do we actually know for certain that Randy Lerner is looking for a buyer? It's been confirmed he has NO interest in selling. Confirmed by who?Well as the accusation is that he is selling, who has confirmed that he is selling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 MysteryMan Ah OK. The same Mysteryman who assured people that there was no way on earth that McLeish would be joining? If he said it was 2012 I'd check the calendar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 15, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 15, 2012 MysteryMan Ah OK. The same Mysteryman who assured people that there was no way on earth that McLeish would be joining? If he said it was 2012 I'd check the calendar. An ad hominem attack when the burden of proof is actually on those saying we are selling is a clever diversionary tactic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I cant believe its even being debated that Rodgers or Lambert would prefer the Villa job to the ones they have now. So I'm not going to debate it. It's laughable. I'm as pissed off as anybody with how things are right now but have some sense of proportion. We're talking about managers of newly promoted small clubs one hand and a footballing institution on the other. Anyway, a few other points. - Martinez didn't join us because he wasn't interviewed or offered the job. Geoff Capes didn't join us either. Neither did Davina McCall or Kermit the Frog. Alas. - It has not been confirmed that Randy is not looking to sell. And in fact, for what it's worth, it's my opinion that he is. Part or whole. I think that as things stand, if Lambert was offered the Villa job today he'd turn us down. What motivates managers? The chance to do well, earn money and win things. We can't offer him better than he already has, and he'd be leaving a club which he has led to two successive promotions and a successful first Premier League season to take over one on a downward spiral with a squad that needs a huge overhaul, but with an owwner who won't provide any more money to do it. The words "poisoned chalice" spring to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 The chance to do well, earn money and win things. We can't offer him better than he already has, and he'd be leaving a club which he has led to two successive promotions and a successful first Premier League season to take over one on a downward spiral with a squad that needs a huge overhaul, but with an owwner who won't provide any more money to do it. The words "poisoned chalice" spring to mind. Sounds very much like GTMK1. Risso check out your PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Sorry, I couldn't disagree more Risso and I fancy Lambert would agree with me. It's ludicrous. It's like saying you want to stay as CEO of cashmygold when Halifax are headhunting you. The only doubts are whether another big club would be after him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Sorry, I couldn't disagree more Risso and I fancy Lambert would agree with me. It's ludicrous. It's like saying you want to stay as CEO of cashmygold when Halifax are headhunting you. The only doubts are whether another big club would be after him too. If I was to compare us to a bank, ie badly run and losing money hand over fist, then it would be Northern Rock of three years ago. Oh and I'd take the CEO of Sellmysovereignrings over Paul Faulkner anyday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 How can it be argued we are an attractive job when we've ended up with houllier and Mcleish as our last two managers. Martinez was offered the chance to come and talk about the job and he had no interest in that. The position is so desirable that we were offering mclaren an interview at one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 How can it be argued we are an attractive job when we've ended up with houllier and Mcleish as our last two managers. Martinez was offered the chance to come and talk about the job and he had no interest in that. The position is so desirable that we were offering mclaren an interview at one point. We're not as attractive as we have been at times but still massively more than Swansea or Norwich for instance. How can that be argued? And you're still not getting it are you? He didn't come to talk because he had already agreed to stay at Wigan as they had stayed up. He made a promise to Whelan before ever Villa invited him for an interview. It was not because he didnt want to manage Villa. And Houllier, whatever you think of him has been a very successful manager in his career. Far more so than O'Neill, his predecessor for instance. Hardly low profile is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I cant believe its even being debated that Rodgers or Lambert would prefer the Villa job to the ones they have now. So I'm not going to debate it. It's laughable. I'm as pissed off as anybody with how things are right now but have some sense of proportion. We're talking about managers of newly promoted small clubs one hand and a footballing institution on the other. Anyway, a few other points. - Martinez didn't join us because he wasn't interviewed or offered the job. Geoff Capes didn't join us either. Neither did Davina McCall or Kermit the Frog. Alas. - It has not been confirmed that Randy is not looking to sell. And in fact, for what it's worth, it's my opinion that he is. Part or whole. I think that as things stand, if Lambert was offered the Villa job today he'd turn us down. What motivates managers? The chance to do well, earn money and win things. We can't offer him better than he already has, and he'd be leaving a club which he has led to two successive promotions and a successful first Premier League season to take over one on a downward spiral with a squad that needs a huge overhaul, but with an owwner who won't provide any more money to do it. The words "poisoned chalice" spring to mind. An owner who won't provide any more money to do it? I'm pretty sure I saw quotes from McLeish, stating that the wage bill is down so that big player wages could be afforded if required... He'd be leaving a small club, that he has helped massively, to come to a massive club, stuck in the bottom half because of underperforming players and poor tactics. He'd probably be given funds to bring in a few players he wanted, then he could work with upcoming talents like Albrighton, Bannan, Clark & Gardner and internationals like Bent, Gabby, Petrov, Ireland, Dunne & Given. I think any smaller manager that hasn't promised their board they'll stay, would jump at the chance to come here. It's whether Randy has the balls to sack McLeish and pay off another club for their manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejoker Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Any new manager that comes in now is in a no-lose situation. The only way is up (hopefully), ala MON at Sunderland. I'd like to think we'd be a good move for Lambert in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 How can it be argued we are an attractive job when we've ended up with houllier and Mcleish as our last two managers. Martinez was offered the chance to come and talk about the job and he had no interest in that. The position is so desirable that we were offering mclaren an interview at one point. We're not as attractive as we have been at times but still massively more than Swansea or Norwich for instance. How can that be argued? And you're still not getting it are you? He didn't come to talk because he had already agreed to stay at Wigan as they had stayed up. He made a promise to Whelan before ever Villa invited him for an interview. It was not because he didnt want to manage Villa. And Houllier, whatever you think of him has been a very successful manager in his career. Far more so than O'Neill, his predecessor for instance. Hardly low profile is he? I'm getting it fine thanks. I think if we were as desirable as you claim then promise or no promise an up and coming manager would at least discuss the possibility of managing us. Especially when his other option is stopping at a club destined to battle relegation with no money to spend. Houllier was high profile but no one else had wanted him during his 5 years out of management and he had health issues in the past. Sorry but I don't see the appointment of a past it manager with health issues as proof that good managers would want to manage us. The ultimate proof is surely last summer where any new manager would have a full Pre season and a small amount of cash to spend and we ended up offering mclaren an interview and appointing Mcleish. If we are such an attractive option how did this happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 How can it be argued we are an attractive job when we've ended up with houllier and Mcleish as our last two managers. Martinez was offered the chance to come and talk about the job and he had no interest in that. The position is so desirable that we were offering mclaren an interview at one point. We're not as attractive as we have been at times but still massively more than Swansea or Norwich for instance. How can that be argued? And you're still not getting it are you? He didn't come to talk because he had already agreed to stay at Wigan as they had stayed up. He made a promise to Whelan before ever Villa invited him for an interview. It was not because he didnt want to manage Villa. And Houllier, whatever you think of him has been a very successful manager in his career. Far more so than O'Neill, his predecessor for instance. Hardly low profile is he? Houllier was virtually retired, and was several years past being an effective Premier League manager. As for Martinez, the point is that if he was interested in the Villa job, he'd be our manager now, but he wasn't. If you're right and he decided to stay loyal to Wigan, why is it so inconceivable that Lambert would do the same? It's perfectly possible to acknowledge that Villa are a much bigger club than Norwich or Swansea, but also think that their managers are happy where they are and wouldn't be in a hurry to leave, especially to a troubled club like Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Just when I thought things couldn't get more farcical, Lerner has invited the Villa coaching staff to shadow to Browns coaching staff for a few days in Cleveland to get some ideas.... That's just what we need, Randy. An inept manager getting advice from the staff of an inept American football club. Lerner is clueless, I'm amazed at this :shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 15, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 15, 2012 As for Martinez, the point is that if he was interested in the Villa job, he'd be our manager now, but he wasn't. If you're right and he decided to stay loyal to Wigan, why is it so inconceivable that Lambert would do the same? It's perfectly possible to acknowledge that Villa are a much bigger club than Norwich or Swansea, but also think that their managers are happy where they are and wouldn't be in a hurry to leave, especially to a troubled club like Villa. First part I disagree, second part I agree. It's very possible that RM held two conflicting emotions - loyalty to DW and WAFC, whilst also being interested in the Villa job. And yes, Lambert or whoever could have the same torn wishes. They're both young managers with a lot of belief in themselves and would think they have time on their side to get a bigger job (which Villa would be) in the future. Indeed displaying loyalty could also benefit their reputations in the longer run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 The people on here clamouring for Martinez are the same people who were banging on about how Owen Coyle should be given the job last summer. Laughable No I wasnt................laughable! :shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 You'll need a big manager to come here and control the players, unfortunately Lambert may be good tactically but he would'nt control the likes of Dunn, Warnock, Ireland, N'Zog. We need a big name if we were to lose McLeish. This was always gonna be the problem with RL employing McLeish, our players dont really respect him as a premiership manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 How can it be argued we are an attractive job when we've ended up with houllier and Mcleish as our last two managers. Martinez was offered the chance to come and talk about the job and he had no interest in that. The position is so desirable that we were offering mclaren an interview at one point. We're not as attractive as we have been at times but still massively more than Swansea or Norwich for instance. How can that be argued? And you're still not getting it are you? He didn't come to talk because he had already agreed to stay at Wigan as they had stayed up. He made a promise to Whelan before ever Villa invited him for an interview. It was not because he didnt want to manage Villa. And Houllier, whatever you think of him has been a very successful manager in his career. Far more so than O'Neill, his predecessor for instance. Hardly low profile is he? Houllier was virtually retired, and was several years past being an effective Premier League manager. As for Martinez, the point is that if he was interested in the Villa job, he'd be our manager now, but he wasn't. If you're right and he decided to stay loyal to Wigan, why is it so inconceivable that Lambert would do the same? It's perfectly possible to acknowledge that Villa are a much bigger club than Norwich or Swansea, but also think that their managers are happy where they are and wouldn't be in a hurry to leave, especially to a troubled club like Villa. Firstly, Houllier left the PL with a good record and went on to win things in France before taking up a role at the French FA. Hardly retired virtually or otherwise. Houllier was out of left field, true but was not a low profile appointment. Secondly, Martinez gave his word he would stay and to some people that is better than a contract. So no, unless Whelan told him to go he wouldn't have. Do I think Martinez would have liked the job? Without any doubt whatsoever and but for his agreement would have ran to the interview. As for Lambert. It's conceivable he would stay at Norwich and stay loyal of course but the point was whether he'd see Villa as a bigger, better job and again, I thinks it's an absolute certainty to the point where I cant believe there is any argument. Last I'll say on this now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Based on the rumours of cliques etc, then I do think that the team would need a massive overhaul. Technically our reserves side are capable and comfortable on the ball, which suggests they are coached the right way. The issue is with the first team, therefore, I would be looking to move on those players who technically are weak and are obviously not comfortable on the ball. Those players also appear to be part of the VP dressing room massiv who are causing issues. Martinez in with 20 m to spend (this is perfectly reasonable) Out: Collins Warnock Hutton Bannan Marshall Jenas (loan ends) Heskey Delfonso Thats 8 players off the wage bill and I would expect in the region of 10-12 million to be brought from those sales. Team would look like: -----------------------------Given------------------------------- Lichaj----------Dunne--------------- Cueller------------Baker --------------------Clark--------McCarthy---------------------- Albrighton---------------Gardner---------------------NZogbia ----------------------------Bent--------------------------------- I have only brought in a centre mid, that team may be young but youth brings speed, energy and enthusiasm. We have a team that Martinez could work with technically and develop. Would rather watch this than a bunch of overpaid, gobby, lazy spongers on a Saturday!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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