The Randy Lerner thread

[pacbuddies]

Was going to wait until the end of the window,  but feck it it may as well end for us now and I cant be arsed if he spends or not

 

Three years ago I started a thread on here which was openly criticizing the owner.  It was a thread that brought me much abuse and much criticism.  Over the years between that point and last summer I maintained my criticism of Randy Lerner in the face of,  what was, overwhelming support for the man.

 

In my thread I said he had done much for the club,  but that where it mattered most on the pitch we still had a long way to go.  That it would require much more massive investment and should he not afford it then it was time for him to do one more service for the club and either sell up to someone with more wealth,  or seek additional investment.

 

Like I say that opinion did not find much support on this site!

 

In the intervening years he reigned back on investing in the team,  changed direction in terms of ambition (it seemed) and started down a path which exposed how badly he had run the club and highlighted his total ineptness in running a “sporting franchise”.  My fears had been justified ,  my criticisms fair he had no clue,  no plan b to get us to the promised land.  Despite the proud history the future was not bright,  a better strapline could have been Shit or Bust quite honestly and we were now in bust territory.

 

Then last summer it seemed things had changed, or started to.  We appointed what was at the time the overwhelming fans favourite for the job of manager.  A manager many of us thought (and some still do) was destined for bigger things than Villa,  that was potentially a better manager than we could have hoped to have gotten at the time.  Why would he have come to us without significant backing?  It was a perfectly valid question and one that was answered with he will be backed.  Some belief was back again.  Not totally in the owner,  but totally in the manager that indeed he would be backed.  The signs pointed to this and if not back to the levels of previous managers backing,  certainly enough for this manager to work in the market he excels.  And given the austerity measures we had seen at the club,  surely the only feasible way open to us to progress as a club.  So maybe we finally did have a plan for a better way forward.  Not the immediate one so craved by football fans and so impossible for our club given the state we were in,  but a more long term sustainable one to build a team from the foundations that has a teamwork ethic,  all pulling for the club and all with loyalty for each other,  the team,  the club,  the manager the fans,  rather than the almighty £.  Basically a team of players we had all been crying out for for two or three years having had to put up with money grabbing wasters who had spent more time polishing the subs bench with their arses and thinking about how to spend the next £40K paycheck the club would give them for the privilege.  Doris the cleaner rapidly employing an agent to renegotiate her minimum wage contract.

 

But all that promise of future togetherness and a team working together still needed backing.  Still needed reinforcements to enable the deadwood overpaid wasters to be shown the exit whilst maintaining our premier league position.  As I have said,  it was a long term approach the manager was working on but it could not be implemented in a short term big bang way.  It was the backing that would support that and mean that instead of big bang and all the associated risks involved it would be a more controlled transition.

 

So the summer showed that in practice.  Some players were moved on to pasture or pastures new,  and the next generation was acquired.  We needed players all over the park,  not just in one or two places as some are now suggesting “why didn’t he just get that one or two DMs or CBs in the summer?”.  Well because one or two wouldn’t have been enough.  One or two now would be. So we saw the acquisition of many players some from lower leagues some from foreign leagues but all in the mould we were crying out for.  Virtually all fans saying “. Most have been decent players willing to come here and build a future together,  willing to show some loyalty and build on something,  something that may even protect against future head turning. Something that will allow the club to have stable foundations,  not constant transition of buy a player , sell a player.  A long term project

 

Sure some are investments,  Benteke and Westwood are two that immediately spring to mind.  Players that come here build success for the club and themselves and then who’s sale for shedloads more than we paid for them enable the club to grow again.  Surely it is the right way to go rather than spending it all on one aged player that offers nothing save the promise of immediate gratification then leaves for nothing or little value at the end of his contract and forcing us to have to reinvest to build again.  Enough of that model,  it is totally unsustainable.  That model is only the way to go if you are under pressure and demands to achieve instant short term success,  that model requires money we have not got. That model was the one employed at the start of the owners tenure but,  as my post of three years ago suggested,  needed more money to achieve.

 

So now we have the only option open to us and the right manager to employ it.  However,  it still needed investment.  We still need to retain our top flight status this year even more than most.

 

It is ok trying to build to out do the competition whilst you are still competing with the top clubs.  But having to do it to catch them up again as the playing surface  is about to change still further and meaning other clubs come into the mix and move ahead of us,  well that is just not doable.  Relegation now will mean we fall behind for a generation. It will not be the lance to finally set us right,  it will be the thing that puts this club to a lower level and keeps us there.  Much like the Forrest or Leeds way,  we will be the modern day version of that failure.

 

Investment was needed.

 

However,  it seems even though we have a long term plan the owner wanted it introduced in a big bang way.  No investment was forthcoming when we needed it most,  perhaps this is the greatest disservice he has done to us. Let down does not describe it for me.  I may not have been totally on board but I was prepared to believe again,  to have hope that maybe a better future was open to us. This is why for me he is worse than Ellis.  Under Ellis we had little hope but we knew we could not achieve it.  Under Lerner we had great hope and promise we could achieve it,  promise he has failed to deliver on .  Mugged off I believe is the current phrase to describe it.  I don’t think it is a lack of interest in the club,  more a lack of interest on his investment.  I do not believe it is a lack of intellect either,  but a lack of nous and understanding.

So my plea has changed.  No longer a plea to seek additional investment,  no longer a plea to invest more himself,  for I do not want the club even more indebted to this man such that it makes a sell out even less viable.  No ,  the plea now is quite simple really so forgive me for not putting clearly the steps to get there,  I am but a simple man of the terraces.  The plea now is get out of my club,  the sooner the better.  I care not for who you sell to actually.  Someone with loads,  someone with just enough to buy you out.  Either route is preferable. The former we may actually achieve something,  the latter at least we will not have the unfulfilled promise that will mark your sad and dismal tenure at my club.  Just go,  find someone to sell to,  put up the for sale signs do whatever it is humanly possible to extradite yourself from my club and it from you and in doing so break the habbit of a lifetime and deliver against one promise you made,  I am not asking now for the promise of greatness just stick to your word if you can,  although evidence proves even that is difficult for you- “There have been plenty of custodians of Aston Villa since 1874 and if I can’t make it work, I will do what the others did, move on and let someone else try”  You’ve not made it work,  you’ve made it worse.  Move on.

 

Yea and I bet I could guess which posters gave you grief too. Probably the same ones that give grief to anyone that can see further than the end of their nose.

[Robbie09]

Totally agree. Time to go Randy, you have failed.

[VillaRoy]

Birmingham Mail:At least Aston Villa chairman Randy Lerner has got SOMETHING to smile about..

 

Hahaha... Enjoy that extra £300 million Randy.

[blandy]

In reply to Richard, I strongly disagreed with (and still do) his reasons for calling for Randy to go. I felt, as has already been said, that the  "sole reason for asking Randy to leave was he wasn't rich enough". For me that's no reason at all, given my take on the way (idealistically, perhaps) I would like my club to operate  I don't want it to be dependent on the whims of a wealthy benefactor - Financial doping Wenger calls it, and he's totally right.

 

I would like football clubs to operate within their means. I would like players to be worth their wages. I would like astronomical fees and agent commission to be a thing of the past. I don't like high ticket prices resulting from this financial arms race, as ever richer people come into the game, either wanting to have a status symbol to advertise their gulf nation, or mineral wealth or dictatorship.

 

I want it to be our game and our club. The people's game. The people's club(s).

 

I felt that Randy, though wealthy, was doing the right things in using money to recover the club's infrastructure, to catch up, or overtake the neglect that had resulted from the previous Chairman's methods of operating.

 

I wanted the club to grow, under an owner who nourished the traditions and ethos of our club. You can keep your searches for an Oligarch or a Sheik, from my viewpoint. That still holds.

 

Where Randy has gone wrong, is not in lack of spending  - fortunes have gone into the club, and still do. I don't complain that he has stopped, or isn't putting as much in. That's not our right to demand.  That's where I totally disagree with Richard. What's gone wrong is the money has been badly spent, through niaivity, through bad advice, through lack of understanding and experience. Through bad decisions.

It's not more money we need. That won't solve any long term problems. In the short term it might postpone what looks like the inevitable, but it'll solve nothing. The club has to be run properly. To wash it's own face, financially. You only have to look at Swansea and Bradford, compared to Villa and Chelsea, from the semis, to see that it's more than money, money money. Well coached, stably run clubs can do well and "achieve". They can beat more expensively assembled and run teams.

 

It looks like Randy has lost his previous level of interest, maybe. It looks like (and we don't know) that he's learnt that throwing money at things isn't any kind of answer, apart from the old joke about how do you become a millionaire in football? - Answer - start as a billionaire.

 

A long standing, and fair criticism of the board of the club, and Randy is the lack of experience and football knowledge on the board. A determination to trust people he knows, while risking huge sums on people (players and managers) he doesn't know. After the takeover there was much more knowledge involved, but they've all gone and none have been replaced. That's why we're where we are.

 

Misfortune, bad managerial appointments, badly focused spending on players - MO'N bought eperience with little resale value, in a bid to quickly get in the top 4. Under Houliier there was the panic by of Bent. McLeish was just the wrong apoointment, and wasn't helped by the cost cutting. Lambert a good choice, but hindered by an awful inheritance and a need to change things round against a background of other clubs having more money, he's by choice and necessity relying on unproven, untested kids and the odd cheaper overseas import. The older players we do have are mostly flaky types, lacking fibre. Stan Petrov, a good 'un, is sadly ill. Lambert wouldn't want Ireland, and Bent and so on, if he had a choice, but he knows he has to rebuild while unable to move on these huge and unjustifiably paid players that no-one else will take of us, it looks like, because of their wages. Warnock turned down Liverpool, because they would have paid less than he was getting here. And he was playing dreadfully.

 

Whether Randy is regretting the whole thing, who knows, and if he's had enough, like the overpaid players on the books, who's going to buy the Club? He's made his bed, and he has to lie in it. It is incumbent on him, as always to care for the club, and he needs to do what's right not just for himself, but for the club - he is just the custodian, and he is obligated to use that custody wisely.

 

They've apparently backed PL, in terms of job safety, and if they have no money for him, then that's all they can do.

 

Much more of this though, and I'd join the ranks of people wanting him to start looking for someone who will do a better job of caring for the club. NOT just "find someone richer", but find someone with the capability to care for the club as it should be cared for.

 

It's important to me that the club is still there, Playing on a saturday. The division we're in matters less to me than to most, it seems. I want hope that wherever we are, the people involved are doing their best , and for the right reasons . That matters far more to me than if we're in the Europa league or Champions league. They're part of what's wrong with football, not what's right with it.

 

Ellis used he club to boost his profile, to feed his need for ego stroking. He took out and didn't put in a penny (other than a loan of £25K). Randy has put fortunes in, and not sought to do anything other than have the club do well. It's gone badly and he's only himself to blame for that. His current plan seems less about football, and more, unfortunately, about money saving - back to the Ellis days. Similar mistakes - too many decisions taken by too small and a non-expert people or persons.

 

Whoever is the owner, we need to have experience making football decisions, the manager backed with whatever money is available, and players in the shirt who earn their money and are fully committed to doing well for their team and the fans and manager, and themselves. The thing is a team sport, and we look all across the club like too many individuals not pulling together, all with differing aims and agendas, and too many fall short of what we might feel we have a right to expect from them. There's far too many, all over, not doing the best they can or could. Sod the money, its' the football that is important, and the Club.

 

[edited for appalling typing.]

[Big_John_10]

and he needs to do what's right not just for himself, but for the club

This for me is why unlike you i think we do have a right to demand that he spends. As owner he does need to do whats best for the club and while you might not mind relegation i can in no way accept that relegation can be right for this club.

[PompeyVillan]

I'm struggling to understand what Randys objectives are at the moment. My opinion is that it was his choice to be a sugar daddy,and I respect his right to not invest and transition into a sustainable club. However, he got us into this mess with his wreckless spending and if it proves that we are relegated because of a lack of investment now, then he will have betrayed the fans and gone back on his word.

I'm happy for Randy to be our owner but I think he needs to appoint an experienced footballing CEO to make this work.

Equally I would be quite happy to see him gone.

[PieFacE]

I'm struggling to understand what Randys objectives are at the moment. My opinion is that it was his choice to be a sugar daddy,and I respect his right to not invest and transition into a sustainable club. However, he got us into this mess with his wreckless spending and if it proves that we are relegated because of a lack of investment now, then he will have betrayed the fans and gone back on his word.

I'm happy for Randy to be our owner but I think he needs to appoint an experienced footballing CEO to make this work.

Equally I would be quite happy to see him gone.

This is where I stand too. 

[vandaq]

Even if you consider the past, investing now is suicide for the club. Do any of you honestly believe this team has what it takes to stay up anymore? Investing now is more crucial than ever, it`s not only the manager even though he has shown nothing so far. I can`t understand how we can be so negligent, we are at the very least talking about a whole year in championship. That might even be harder than the challenge that we face now. If they really are so stubborn on the whole wage idea that they rather get relegated then he should get out. No matter how you look at it, premier league is run on money. Just look at the TV deal that is coming in, there is no other way to look at it. Not a fan of how big wages and transfers has become, but to start out a whole new platform in the top league is dangerous to say the least. I say **** him, he has ruined the club. Lambert was a good choice indeed, and was supposed to be a mark of a new era. Why not invest in it? Get redmond, get hughes if you have to, get some real talent at least. If you honestly believe shitty players like bennett, bowery, kea,bannan, holman and the list goes on are going to take us back to being a top 6 team you are negligent. This whole malevolent behavior from him is sickening, how he hides in america, how he doesn`t even come to a cup semi final...wtf is that? Sure, I don`t want a abramovitch either, but I want someone who realizes what the **** is going on, sees the problem and invests where it is needed. This team is one of the worst to grace villa park and we are just gonna go with it? 

[blandy]

I'm struggling to understand what Randys objectives are at the moment. My opinion is that it was his choice to be a sugar daddy,and I respect his right to not invest and transition into a sustainable club. However, he got us into this mess with his wreckless spending and if it proves that we are relegated because of a lack of investment now, then he will have betrayed the fans and gone back on his word.

I'm happy for Randy to be our owner but I think he needs to appoint an experienced footballing CEO to make this work.

I agree, too. I'd not be happy as such to see him gone, but I get where you're coming from, and why.

[SquaddieVilla]

Even if you consider the past, investing now is suicide for the club. Do any of you honestly believe this team has what it takes to stay up anymore? Investing now is more crucial than ever, it`s not only the manager even though he has shown nothing so far. I can`t understand how we can be so negligent, we are at the very least talking about a whole year in championship. That might even be harder than the challenge that we face now. If they really are so stubborn on the whole wage idea that they rather get relegated then he should get out. No matter how you look at it, premier league is run on money. Just look at the TV deal that is coming in, there is no other way to look at it. Not a fan of how big wages and transfers has become, but to start out a whole new platform in the top league is dangerous to say the least. I say **** him, he has ruined the club. Lambert was a good choice indeed, and was supposed to be a mark of a new era. Why not invest in it? Get redmond, get hughes if you have to, get some real talent at least. If you honestly believe shitty players like bennett, bowery, kea,bannan, holman and the list goes on are going to take us back to being a top 6 team you are negligent. This whole malevolent behavior from him is sickening, how he hides in america, how he doesn`t even come to a cup semi final...wtf is that? Sure, I don`t want a abramovitch either, but I want someone who realizes what the **** is going on, sees the problem and invests where it is needed. This team is one of the worst to grace villa park and we are just gonna go with it? 

U can liken it to a long distance relationship,

initially the butterflies,

the nightly phone calls,

the loved up period,

then comes the middle part

starting to take each other for granted

arguments

fall outs

not visiting as much

excuses not to travel as often

ignoring each other

and your then your binned..................

[Mendi]

Time to go Randy, you have failed and everyone knows this.

[MagicMushroom]

Time to go Randy, you have failed and everyone knows this.

 

 

 

 

He knows it himsef, hence why the freak hides himself away.

 

Tattoo?

 

No real fan with the cash he has, would sit idly by and watch his beloved club drown, whilst ignoring its supporters. Its utterly....utterly deplorable, and he has now got to go.

[Grunthos]

They've apparently backed PL, in terms of job safety, and if they have no money for him, then that's all they can do.

Here's the problem that's cracked it for me, Blandy: they do have money for him.  To repeat, Randy just sold the Browns for roughly a billion dollars.  The idea that he can't back his manager even in the acquisition of further bargain signings like Westwood and Lowton at this stage is ludicrous.  We don't need a whole new team to stay up, and we don't need to commit to huge contracts to get better players than PL is running out there in the middle of the park right now.

 

I, too, fully support the idea that the club should live within its means... but strangling Lambert's options right at this moment in the name of that principle is deeply stupid.  Everyone is clear on the fact that the remaining high earners are going to come off the books in the next couple of years, one way or another.  That fact alone, along with the massive exodus that has already occurred since MON quit, ensures that the club is in no danger of collapsing into administration.  And yet Lerner now insists on doing his own level best to force us down.  It's gratuitously, unforgiveably idiotic.

[ozvillafan]

Great posts by Blandy and Richard - thanks!

 

Lerner is far from blameless, but I think the our current malaise has more to do with Lambert.

 

- The transfer targets

- The decision to run the squad with little to no experience

- The decision to freeze out players that he has at his disposal

- The tactics employed

 

None of these are down to Lerner. And neither was a change of plan thrust upon him the way many argue it was for MON. 

 

A manager that could get the best out of his aging "flaky" seniors and integrated the inexperienced players, thus providing a base to build from would have seen us comfortable in terms of relegation this season.

 

Instead, it's too much too soon from Lambert. I get the sense he has painted himself into a corner, with his only response being to keep painting in the hope that it will all be ok in the end.

[Jarpie]

I wonder why Lerner didn't go for Mark Hughes when he resigned from Fulham and then blatantly tapped up TSM. Hughes clearly left Fulham when he found out we're looking for new manager and would've certainly been much better choice than TSM and had done reasonably well in Fulham and Blackburn.

[DelboyVilla]

I wonder why Lerner didn't go for Mark Hughes when he resigned from Fulham and then blatantly tapped up TSM. Hughes clearly left Fulham when he found out we're looking for new manager and would've certainly been much better choice than TSM and had done reasonably well in Fulham and Blackburn.

I thought it was because of his friendship with Al-Fayed???

[Zatman]

I wonder why Lerner didn't go for Mark Hughes when he resigned from Fulham and then blatantly tapped up TSM. Hughes clearly left Fulham when he found out we're looking for new manager and would've certainly been much better choice than TSM and had done reasonably well in Fulham and Blackburn.

 

maybe he saw another O'Neill in Hughes especially with the Joorabchan connections

[drat01]

Excellent summing up by Pete B.

 

The calls for him to go a few years ago were stupid IMO, but things have changed and don't let anyone tall you lies that they saw that coming because that is BS. As with all business models there are key points that can and often do alter the course that things are going towards. A few years back whilst the plans that Randy had in place were worthy of questioning there was a lot correct in the ideas and end point which we wanted to get to. What has happened though, especially over the past few months is that despite all of the alarms going off they have continued making decisions that do not help matters, do not engage with and meet the fans aspirations and wants and most importantly affect the core product - i.e. the paying staff

 

Employing Lambert was now - and hindsight is fantastic in these things - a massive mistake. He was never the man to deliver on the challenge he was set, he had no record of doing that, little ability to do that and if you believe a lot of the comments on here is nothing more than a cheque book manager.

 

Lerner has to get out of this now (taking Faulkner and Lambert with him) - the club will survive, but its now in a very bad way and will take years to recover from this mess

[Morpheus]

Also wish to state great posts by Richard and Blandy which wouldn't look out of place in any newspaper.

 

Since we have been informed by ITKs and now Lambert that there is very little possibility of any further investment being made available for new players this month i have been wondering would that stance have changed if we had been in mid table pushing for a Europa placing?

 

Having noted the improvement with our new manager and his philosophy on youth, would Lerner have given Lambert further financial investment this month to improve the team, or even with this hypothetical hypothesis would Lerner's present stance on investing in the team this month still be the same?

 

I ask the question because the excuse given by several posters, including myself, is that our chairman has given each incoming manager over the last three years money to spend yet our position in the league hasn't improved significantly and it has actually become worse.

 

The frustration is that for a further investment of between 10m-20m the general opinion from Villa fans is that our status in the Premiership would be safe for another season and that investment could then be offset at the end of the season with the increase in TV revenue and the wages of both Dunne and Warnock being off the books.

 

What then?

 

We might have won our battle with relegation for another year but to actually improve our position in the Premiership how much more investment is needed to stop us from just standing still and facing yet another relegation battle?

 

Would Lambert's purchases this season have improved enough with that much lauded Premiership experience to actually keep us in mid table security without the need to spent yet another 20m plus?

 

You also have to consider whether the likes of Benteke or Westwood will be cherry picked by the bigger clubs?

 

I realise that our chairman wants us to be self sufficient but i don't think we yet have the building blocks in place for that to happen and to achieve that goal of self sufficiency he must invest more to allow, or employ the right manager to build the type of squad that will only need one or two additions per season rather than a complete over hall!

Edited January 25, 2013 by Morpheus

[blandy]

Here's the problem that's cracked it for me, Blandy: they do have money for him.  To repeat, Randy just sold the Browns for roughly a billion dollars.  The idea that he can't back his manager even in the acquisition of further bargain signings like Westwood and Lowton at this stage is ludicrous.  We don't need a whole new team to stay up, and we don't need to commit to huge contracts to get better players than PL is running out there in the middle of the park right now.

 

I, too, fully support the idea that the club should live within its means... but strangling Lambert's options right at this moment in the name of that principle is deeply stupid.

I largely agree with that, Grunthos. I'm not sure he sold the Browns, or hegets the proceeds though - I might be wrong, but I had it in mind that the Trust owned the Browns, and he was the Chairman - so while he made the decision to sell, he is not the one who gets the money. And if the proceeds have gone to a financial fund, not controlled by Randy, then perhaps any proceeds going to the Villa would be a loan, not just cash (converted to equity) put in. Would you loan a club threatened with relegation, and already with large debt a whole bunch of money, if you were a financial fund manager, with a duty to ensure money is not lost with no or only a small chance of getting it back?

It's clear that we need the things you identify, but there's a reason (and we haven't been told what it is) that the money is not there. We should be told why, but I'm not holding my breath. Lambert has said that he's tried to bring 2 or 3 players in, but wages and fees asked for the players he wanted are out of our reach.

I guess it might be as simple as, "the limit of the spending I will make is (say) 250 million, and that limit has been reached" - the pot is empty. Until or unless money comes in, there's just none to spend.