villa75 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I see all this "investment of 250m" talk all the time but what about the monies he has recouped from that? Player sales & the like? Milner, Young, Downing etc etc.. I mean there's what 40m ish just there & you can't tell me all that has been reinvested surely? I mean with the income from tv, prize money etc & the money raised from sales for the last 3 seasons now he must be getting some of that back? I'm no accountant but hey! Not just transfer fees , you have to take into account how much was spent on wages as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Not just transfer fees , you have to take into account how much was spent on wages as well And taken back in high interest loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I see all this "investment of 250m" talk all the time but what about the monies he has recouped from that? Player sales & the like? Milner, Young, Downing etc etc.. I mean there's what 40m ish just there & you can't tell me all that has been reinvested surely? I mean with the income from tv, prize money etc & the money raised from sales for the last 3 seasons now he must be getting some of that back? I'm no accountant but hey! He doesnt have to spend everything you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I'm so angry I wanna call him bad names... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) I do actually think that Lerner isn't that overly concerned if we go down now. Has probably weighed up what the costs involved in "guaranteeing" staying up would be against what the actual "losses" would really be if we went down. So... Losses: 1. 70m in new tv money, 2. A bit of a drop in gate receipts etc... Lets say we lost 8000 from the average with a spend per head of £50 per match thats about 400,000 down per home game so around 8m - 9m ish. 3. Then a drop in sponsorship money, as is already apparent with Genting not renewing amongst others most likely.. This i havn't a clue on overall but lets take a wild guess at another 10m? Gains: 1. A parachute payment of approx 16m 2. The cost in transfer fees & wages to "Guarantee" we would stay up would appear to be significant bearing in mind we have one of if not the worst squad ever at this club. So this may well need another 20m plus the wages which may add another 10-15m so there's 30-35m again. We may of course survive with less but i am guessing they would be looking at this as irrelevant unless it would absolutely ensure safety because otherwise it could put us in an even worse position if we increased the wages & spent big on transfer fees only to get relegated anyway which you have to say is a massive possibility. 3. By going down many of the clubs top earners would want out thus reducing the wage bill still further. It may not be all of them but some would leave for sure & certainly more than if we stayed up. Difficult to put a figure on this of course but lets say another 20m in wages off the bill & some money gained from transfers of another 20m 4. As we know some contracts are ending naturally anyway so this would surely finally get the clubs wage bill fully under control with maybe just a couple to shift on at some point. Again the figure for this is difficult to pinpoint but it must surely be another 7-10m? off the wage bill as a rough guess. So that would mean we would lose out on about 89m but would technically "gain" around the same if not actually a little bit more 90 - 100m although that "gain" would be spread over Parachute payment (16m) Savings made by not having to spend on transfer fees & wages to stay up (30-35m) Player sales due to relegation (20m) Savings on wages due to relegation (20m) This would also mean another massive chunk off the wage bill which would surely put the club in a very healthy position regarding the sustainability issue which we all know has been the main target of Randy since the change of plans in 2010. So for me maybe the plan is that if we do manage to stay up then great & the extra TV money would enable us to then maybe strengthen in the summer properly. If we do go down then so be it... But we would then have the wages under control more or less & we would go all out to get back up. A gamble for sure but maybe a calculated one to a point. The one thing it appears that is not an option, is to push the wages right back up again in an all out attempt to stay up (this would explain the repeated comments from Lambert that he wouldn't pay silly wages which is often what happens when buying players at this time of year) So no i think any signings will only come in if they fit in with the overall plan (which may well include relegation hence the lack of willingness to sign any big names etc) In other words if they come they will have to be ok with wages on the lower end in case we go down.... Hence no signings as yet. Edited January 23, 2013 by danceoftheshamen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 He doesnt have to spend everything you know. Of course he doesn't but that wasn't my point, my point was that he must have recouped some of that which doesn't seem to be accounted for in any of the stories, articles or posts i see everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Another Downfall Parody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorski Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Relegation would be a disaster for AVFC,we could end up being out of the Premier League for years,look at Leeds United! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Of course he doesn't but that wasn't my point, my point was that he must have recouped some of that which doesn't seem to be accounted for in any of the stories, articles or posts i see everywhere. But other than hard cash for players/facilities - nothing else is accounted for. I think 250m is more than enough of an investment. Anyone demanding he gives more or gets lost (not saying you are btw) is a bit silly imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 But other than hard cash for players/facilities - nothing else is accounted for. I think 250m is more than enough of an investment. Anyone demanding he gives more or gets lost (not saying you are btw) is a bit silly imo. Absloutely.... you can understand his reluctance to invest more... Especially as it still has to be repaid by the club with interest so in a sense the more he invests the more he shackles his club financially. So a bit of a no win situation in that respect & of course he has to do that under the regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) Wasn't there a comment from PF about us being in the Deloitte top 20 incomes ...not anymore been leapfrogged by Newcastle who have increased income from 98mil euro to 115mil euro.. So off the pitch we are not doing so well , funny that coincides with being shit on the pitch too.. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jan/24/manchester-city-deloitte-top-earners?CMP=twt_gu Scary figures in honesty how Spurs are double us Arsenal 200 mil more United 300 mil more , of course these clubs want FFP they would be untouchable then. Edited January 24, 2013 by Nabby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMushroom Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Absloutely.... you can understand his reluctance to invest more... Especially as it still has to be repaid by the club with interest so in a sense the more he invests the more he shackles his club financially. So a bit of a no win situation in that respect & of course he has to do that under the regulations. Im convinced Lerner has decided to cut his losses and sell in the summer. I think he realises that the longer he remains the higher his loss will be. The cuts that have been imposed over the last three years are right across the board, and not solely the playing side. He is simply reigning in whatever he can save, then put us up for a quick sale. I only hope he sells to someone that cares for the club, but looking at the last three years, im not confident he will even get that right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulfromsutton Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Sorry but a lot of you have some bollocks figures yes I have seen the 250m figure in the papers and certain sites but the facts remain.... He has spent 12m per season after player sales on players, he paid for the training ground to be finshed and a few bits around the ground there is no way he has spent more than 110m on infrastructure and players in his time here. The rest is his own dumb ass fault. He hires and fires crap managers with huge payoffs, he sanctions massive wages for average players on long term deals, he gave away free sponsorship (even if it was a nice thing to do still a loss of revenue) So stop defending the spend! Just a word on wages... you know what the wages were when they were oh so big and we were finishing 6th in the league? The 6th highest. You get what you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulfromsutton Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Wasn't there a comment from PF about us being in the Deloitte top 20 incomes ...not anymore been leapfrogged by Newcastle who have increased income from 98mil euro to 115mil euro.. So off the pitch we are not doing so well , funny that coincides with being shit on the pitch too.. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jan/24/manchester-city-deloitte-top-earners?CMP=twt_gu Scary figures in honesty how Spurs are double us Arsenal 200 mil more United 300 mil more , of course these clubs want FFP they would be untouchable then. This means our natural place in the league is somewhere between 8th and 10th based on money coming into the club...... make of that what you will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 In 3 years I have gone from loving Lerner, to thinking he was a naive Yank, to thinking he was a daft tw@t on to now thinking very nasty (& violent) thoughts about him. I don't care what he has done in the past or invested! The here and now is that we are the worst team in the league at the moment, we have a manager who seems completely out of his depth and a CEO who thinks he is running a corner shop. If Randy can't see that the only way to protect his investment to date is by maintaining our Premier League status or at least trying to then he is more stupid than I think. The club will be worth far more as an Premier League entity than it will as a Championship entity whether Lerner has invested $1 or $1bn. Lerner must take most of the blame for where we are now, he has had the ultimate say in all descisions made, he makes a point of letting us all know he in touch with the main men on a daily basis. We haven't been strong enough in keeping our best players and have allowed poor players to be signed on long lucrative contracts for inflated fees which we would never have any chance of even partial recovery. Poor appointments have lead to multiple managerial changes which leads to constant rebuilding but if we are sticking with Lambert he needs backing as he is obviously struggling with the poor quality in our squad. Ultimately Lerner needs to get out he obviously neither has the nouse or the guts to run a club the size of Villa. People use the Venkys as an example of a poor set of owners and at the moment I don't see how Lerner is acting any differently to them at the moment except Venkys probably attend more games. I really hope that a viable new buyer turns up soon and saves our club from the predicament Lerner has placed us in. Fingers Crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 And taken back in high interest loans. aren't they relatively low interest loans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Sorry but a lot of you have some bollocks figures yes I have seen the 250m figure in the papers and certain sites but the facts remain.... He has spent 12m per season after player sales on players, he paid for the training ground to be finshed and a few bits around the ground there is no way he has spent more than 110m on infrastructure and players in his time here. add up the deficits we've had every year since he took over, that'll give you a good idea of the money he's put into the club, loans or not. but even that doesn't give the full story, since the deficits were also being lowered through cash injections. he's sunk an absolute **** fortune into the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 add up the deficits we've had every year since he took over, that'll give you a good idea of the money he's put into the club, loans or not. but even that doesn't give the full story, since the deficits were also being lowered through cash injections. he's sunk an absolute **** fortune into the club And all he has to show for it is the worst team in the Premier League, a nice pub, a great training ground and reminder on his ankle of money down the drain. What is annoying me is that he thinks doing diddly squat is going to save us??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) And all he has to show for it is the worst team in the Premier League, a nice pub, a great training ground and reminder on his ankle of money down the drain. What is annoying me is that he thinks doing diddly squat is going to save us??? i doubt he thinks that at all tbh Edited January 24, 2013 by P3te Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I doubt he is even thinking of us. His occupation is described at Companies House as an 'investor' this is a bad investment and maybe he has many others and we are a tax avoidance strategy for him - far fetched but more logical than some explanations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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