U.S. Politics

[KenjiOgiwara]

40 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I'm sorry, I watched a number of angles from it and to me a physical fight is literally that....they tried to take him down, he "wrestled" free and ran.  That isnt a fight to me, he resisted arrest, struggled free and went.  No punches, no elbows, no kicks....in fact no positive, confrontational positive at the police officers apart from getting free and running with the taser.  Apologies if I have missed the scene where he punched, elbowed, kicked the officer as such.......that to me is a fight.  What I saw was resisting arrest and struggling free......

That's fine, we can just disagree on it. The fact that he stole a weapon then used it at law enforcement is far more serious anyway. 

[bickster]

10 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

The fact that he stole a weapon then used it at law enforcement

Did he use it? Or even piont it at them? I'm asking because every other account I've read says that he didn't

[Keyblade]

12 minutes ago, bickster said:

Did he use it? Or even piont it at them? I'm asking because every other account I've read says that he didn't

There's no bodycam footage from after he got away because (both!) the bodycams were apparently dislodged during the struggle, and from that one lady's dash cam footage, it look like he broke free and just ran away without looking back so the only time he could have used it was during the scuffle from what I can tell.

[maqroll]

People want equality

 

[mjmooney]

In other news, Trump says that they should stop testing for COVID-19, then there won't be any new cases. 

I'm not making this up. 

[nick76]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

Did he use it? Or even piont it at them? I'm asking because every other account I've read says that he didn't

This video seems to show he fired the taser.  The more interesting thing is that before Brooks shot the taser, the Officer was already reaching for his gun. Watching it slowly even before Brooks turned and raised the Taser the officer switched his taser from right hand to left hand and right hand went for his gun.  Why did the officer not taser him a few seconds beforehand because he was close enough to him and had the taser directed to Brooks.

https://vp.nyt.com/video/2020/06/14/87042_1_14-brooks-vid4_wg_720p.mp4

[nick76]

Amazing how lives change....if you watch the first forty minutes of the officers bodycam you will see that Brooks responded to the police far better than Matt Gaetz, the vocal idiot that is now a member of congress who likes the media attention more than doing actual work.  Brooks did a stupid thing for whatever reason he did it for when he wrestled free and ran, whereas Matt just declined everything.  Brooks is now dead and Matt got his acquaintances to get him off and now representing the country in the House as Florida's representative and is a kiss up to Trump.  Just amazing how life goes despite the same initial crimes........

Matt Gaetz Member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Florida's 1st district

 

"In 2008, Gaetz was arrested under a charge of driving under the influence (DUI) as he was driving back from the Swamp, a nightclub on Okaloosa Island, Florida. Police recorded Gaetz driving 13 mph over that area's speed limit.^[92] Police noted that Gaetz had shown physical signs of intoxication, initially denied that he had drunk alcohol, but later admitted to drinking two beers. Gaetz failed an eye test twice, then declined field sobriety tests. After Gaetz was arrested, he refused to take a breathalyzer test.^[93]

Shortly after Gaetz's case was referred to state attorney Steve Meadows, Gaetz's driving license was reinstated. Despite a time period of a year's suspension mandated by Florida law when a driver refuses a breathalyzer test, Gaetz's suspension was less than a year long. Gaetz's refusal also did not lead to a criminal prosecution, where it could have been used against him. An officer for the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles declared there was no evidence that Gaetz refused a breathalyzer test, despite the arresting police officer having documented it in an affidavit and Gaetz's arrest report, and Gaetz's own attorney also documenting it. Gaetz's attorney also claimed an unnamed witness who knew Gaetz "observed no indication of impairment".^[93]

Charges against Gaetz were dismissed by Meadows. Gaetz has cited the dropped charges as proof that he was innocent"

 

[NurembergVillan]

46 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

In other news, Trump says that they should stop testing for COVID-19, then there won't be any new cases. 

I'm not making this up. 

Didn't he say that a while back, or has he said it again?!

[Keyblade]

25 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Amazing how lives change....if you watch the first forty minutes of the officers bodycam you will see that Brooks responded to the police far better than Matt Gaetz, the vocal idiot that is now a member of congress who likes the media attention more than doing actual work.  Brooks did a stupid thing for whatever reason he did it for when he wrestled free and ran, whereas Matt just declined everything.  Brooks is now dead and Matt got his acquaintances to get him off and now representing the country in the House as Florida's representative and is a kiss up to Trump.  Just amazing how life goes despite the same initial crimes........

Matt Gaetz Member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Florida's 1st district

 

"In 2008, Gaetz was arrested under a charge of driving under the influence (DUI) as he was driving back from the Swamp, a nightclub on Okaloosa Island, Florida. Police recorded Gaetz driving 13 mph over that area's speed limit.^[92] Police noted that Gaetz had shown physical signs of intoxication, initially denied that he had drunk alcohol, but later admitted to drinking two beers. Gaetz failed an eye test twice, then declined field sobriety tests. After Gaetz was arrested, he refused to take a breathalyzer test.^[93]

Shortly after Gaetz's case was referred to state attorney Steve Meadows, Gaetz's driving license was reinstated. Despite a time period of a year's suspension mandated by Florida law when a driver refuses a breathalyzer test, Gaetz's suspension was less than a year long. Gaetz's refusal also did not lead to a criminal prosecution, where it could have been used against him. An officer for the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles declared there was no evidence that Gaetz refused a breathalyzer test, despite the arresting police officer having documented it in an affidavit and Gaetz's arrest report, and Gaetz's own attorney also documenting it. Gaetz's attorney also claimed an unnamed witness who knew Gaetz "observed no indication of impairment".^[93]

Charges against Gaetz were dismissed by Meadows. Gaetz has cited the dropped charges as proof that he was innocent"

 

There was one part where he offered to walk home and leave his car in the lot. The officer was being belligerent and asking why would want to walk home, to which he responded "so I'm not in violation of anything". Then they gave him yes/no ultimatums about taking the breathalyzer. If he said no, I imagine the struggle would have happened then and there instead of 10 mins later or however long it was. They were going to arrest him by hook or by crook it seemed.

[HanoiVillan]

@NurembergVillan

He's been saying it since the start of the pandemic, ever since he attemted to refuse a cruise ship permission to dock in Florida - despite carrying many American citizens - because, and I quote, 'I like the numbers where they are'.

Who would have thought that a president who thinks testing is bad because it makes the numbers go up would have presided over a testing catastrophe and 100,000 corpses.

Edited June 15, 2020 by HanoiVillan

[sne]

2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

@NurembergVillan

He's been saying it since the start of the pandemic, ever since he attemted to refuse a cruise ship permission to dock in Florida - despite carrying many American citizens - because, and I quote, 'I like the numbers where they are'.

Who would have thought that a president who thinks testing is bad because it makes the numbers go up would have presided over a testing catastrophe and 100,000 corpses.

Bolsonaro tried the same thing in Brazil but was shut down by the senate 

[HanoiVillan]

Just now, sne said:

Bolsonaro tried the same thing in Brazil but was shut down by the senate 

Yeah, he's even worse.

[Keyblade]

 

[LondonLax]

John Bolton’s book about his time in the White House is due out next week unless legal proceedings by the administration can stop its release. Should be a fun week.

[snowychap]

12 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

 

Sounds a shade harsh. Couldn't they just sack them?

[TheAuthority]

12 hours ago, Keyblade said:

What annoyed me was that the cop came back to him after he told him in a friendly manner to go park his car and sleep it off. Everything was nice and easy. The exchange should've been over right then and there! Do they have an arrest quota or something? Dude was tired, fell asleep in the drive-thru lane and he complied and parked in the parking spaces to continue his nap. Also the way the second cop tried to arrest him was only going to bring trouble. Just grabbing a drunk guy like that and twisting/contorting his arms. Unless he was completely off his rocker, who's going to completely comply like that? 

Quotas - yes they do. Economically challenged minority neighborhoods are easy pickings. Theres also years of 'making the streets safe' which in their minds means getting as many black man in jail as possible.

There's many grey areas with DUI. The field sobriety test is inadmissible in court. The machine you blow is not accurate and as for that standing on one leg touching your nose while an officer screams at you BS - thats just to intimidate you. They have to get you to the station quickly to blow the official machine. Even then you can refuse. That means they have to get a judge out of bed (presumably) to sign a warrant forcing you to give blood. If you've fought that long it's possible your bac will below the limit. You can be in a stationary vehicle if you are intoxicated. They have to prove you had intent to drive it. Is the engine running? If not is your hand on the key in the ignition?

If he'd known that all he had to say was "I'm not answering any questions" and kept his window rolled  up then the poor fellow may still have his life. But thats hard with these kind of cops being assholes. And when you're black. The fear of them just shooting through the window must have been off the scale. 
"If I'm not under arrest officer please leave me alone and I'm not answering any questions. If you want me to answer questions, arrest me and call my lawyer." 

The real sadness is he's tried to do the right thing. Upon realizing that he's drank too much to drive he's stopped, pulled over and is trying to sleep it off. He may have done better taking his chances and just driven home - perhaps there would have been less chance of him being pulled over. Then again, he was a black man.

[Keyblade]

20 minutes ago, TheAuthority said:

Quotas - yes they do. Economically challenged minority neighborhoods are easy pickings. Theres also years of 'making the streets safe' which in their minds means getting as many black man in jail as possible.

There's many grey areas with DUI. The field sobriety test is inadmissible in court. The machine you blow is not accurate and as for that standing on one leg touching your nose while an officer screams at you BS - thats just to intimidate you. They have to get you to the station quickly to blow the official machine. Even then you can refuse. That means they have to get a judge out of bed (presumably) to sign a warrant forcing you to give blood. If you've fought that long it's possible your bac will below the limit. You can be in a stationary vehicle if you are intoxicated. They have to prove you had intent to drive it. Is the engine running? If not is your hand on the key in the ignition?

If he'd known that all he had to say was "I'm not answering any questions" and kept his window rolled  up then the poor fellow may still have his life. But thats hard with these kind of cops being assholes. And when you're black. The fear of them just shooting through the window must have been off the scale. 
"If I'm not under arrest officer please leave me alone and I'm not answering any questions. If you want me to answer questions, arrest me and call my lawyer." 

The real sadness is he's tried to do the right thing. Upon realizing that he's drank too much to drive he's stopped, pulled over and is trying to sleep it off. He may have done better taking his chances and just driven home - perhaps there would have been less chance of him being pulled over. Then again, he was a black man.

The officer opened the his door on him twice, the second time after he pulled over at his request (are they even allowed to do that? A cursory Google search brings up mixed results). Feel really bad because like you say, he was trying to do the right thing. Even offered to walk home and leave his car right there (they could have drove him home if they were such nice guys). How could they prove that his story about his sister dropping him off wasn't true? They were fishing for an arrest from the jump, that I have no doubt.

[KenjiOgiwara]

11 hours ago, bickster said:

Did he use it? Or even piont it at them? I'm asking because every other account I've read says that he didn't

Surprised by that. Every news source I can find say he did and he did. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

12 hours ago, nick76 said:

I'm sorry, I watched a number of angles from it and to me a physical fight is literally that....they tried to take him down, he "wrestled" free and ran.  That isnt a fight to me, he resisted arrest, struggled free and went.  No punches, no elbows, no kicks....in fact no positive, confrontational positive at the police officers apart from getting free and running with the taser.  Apologies if I have missed the scene where he punched, elbowed, kicked the officer as such.......that to me is a fight.  What I saw was resisting arrest and struggling free......

Washington Post reporting he punched a police officer to the face. Still think it wasn't a fight?

Edited June 16, 2020 by KenjiOgiwara

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Washington Post reporting he punched a police officer to the face. Still think it wasn't a fight?

Did you not see the video? It wasn't a fight, it was a struggle to get him handcuffed/him trying to wrestle away. There was one moment right before he broke free where he threw a punch while one of them was clinging onto his arm but it didn't look like it connected. It did allow him to break free so maybe it did. Wasn't what I'd call a fight though.