Keyblade Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 12 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: Just watched the entire video. I mean, the guys blatantly pissed, the cops were actually very nice up to the end, the whole time you’re watching it and you can’t imagine it’s going to escalate like that. I’m flabbergasted, he had no reason to resist and then fight back, but then that’s the problem with drunk people, they’re unpredictable. I actually (for once) feel sorry for those cops, particularly the original one, the second one on the scene was a bit of a knob but still was respectful, although in hindsight I’ll bet he wishes he’d approached the actual arrest just slightly differently, given the volume of dialogue im surprised they didn’t calmly explain he was being arrested and talk him into agreeing to it rather than just going for the hands and cuffs so quickly (after the testing etc had been completed). There was a point where the original cop goes back to his car early on and he blows out air in a way that you just know meant ah balls, last thing I need this, fingers crossed it goes okay, but of course it hasn’t and now he’ll be on placards of demanding protesters for the sack or worse. Just a totally avoidable waste all round. What annoyed me was that the cop came back to him after he told him in a friendly manner to go park his car and sleep it off. Everything was nice and easy. The exchange should've been over right then and there! Do they have an arrest quota or something? Dude was tired, fell asleep in the drive-thru lane and he complied and parked in the parking spaces to continue his nap. Also the way the second cop tried to arrest him was only going to bring trouble. Just grabbing a drunk guy like that and twisting/contorting his arms. Unless he was completely off his rocker, who's going to completely comply like that? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Lets call a spade a spade. Yes he did. No, fought and resisting are very different so your spade is a fork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: I’m a pretty liberal guy, and as I’ve stated many times before I usually have very little time nor respect for police through a combination of my own experiences and opinions. But given that this is the US, given that as a parameter of their jobs they carry and will discharge firearms - so this guy (inebriated or otherwise) fully understood this - I’m not sure that you can apportion blame on the cops who had a suspect resisting arrest, taking a weapon and attempting to flee - if of course, that is what happened, which the video would appear to suggest. Yes, it’s just a drunk driver, but I think given that he was found passed out in a drive-thru queue it can be reasonable to attach dangerous driving to the equation too (although he wasn’t seen by a cop actually operating the vehicle admittedly). Then of course he’s resisted arrest, fought back and taken a taser gun, then he’s running away, what are the cops (with their parameters of being able to carry and discharge a gun) supposed to do? Let him run off with a weapon pissed up - he didn’t even know where he was for most of the video. As I’ve already written, it’s tragic all round potentially, there’s a vibe right now that all white US cops are gun toting shadow KKK members but they won’t be, there’s a chance they might have just been decent folk (the first cop definitely seemed very reasonable) who know have to go through an inevitable avalanche of trauma and scrutiny. And then of course there’s further, needless loss of life in the guy who, when caught blatantly breaking the law (albeit minor in the scheme of things), chose, in his inebriated state admittedly, to resist arrest and run - and that is 100% of the time a dangerous decision to take when you’re dealing with people who are armed and trained to do what they did in that situation. Immobilise him. First reaction isnt to kill him, he cant shoot his leg. He know the guy has no guns, the taser has been discharged so not effective yet, so if you are using a gun (cant believe I'm saying this) but immobilise him not kill him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 hour ago, nick76 said: Immobilise him. First reaction isnt to kill him, he cant shoot his leg. He know the guy has no guns, the taser has been discharged so not effective yet, so if you are using a gun (cant believe I'm saying this) but immobilise him not kill him Why'd they even need to get him so bad, for what, a DUI at most? There's no reason on earth to shoot someone with a pistol while they're running away. You have his car, you don't exactly need to be James Bond to find him. The only thing I can think of is that Americans have some kind of John Wayne fantasy. Give them a gun and they'll just be itching to use it at the first opportunity. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Conservative/Republican majority SC in sensible humanity favoring decision... not the Onion! 2020 has got to be real pissed about this! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 I can't wait until the Tango tyrant weighs in and gives his thoughts on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) Ask and you shall receive. Keep this man as far away from a microphone as possible. Edited June 15, 2020 by villakram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 26 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Why'd they even need to get him so bad, for what, a DUI at most? There's no reason on earth to shoot someone with a pistol while they're running away. You have his car, you don't exactly need to be James Bond to find him. The only thing I can think of is that Americans have some kind of John Wayne fantasy. Give them a gun and they'll just be itching to use it at the first opportunity. Exactly that! Put a warrant out for his arrest, he sobers up and comes in or they have his car, his address, easily have his work place Asks the question what sort of repercussions are there for the officers is he escapes I would expect that in the UK his front doors getting smashed off its hinges at 6am the next day, then his girlfriends, then his parents... Then he's turning up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 hour ago, nick76 said: No, fought and resisting are very different so your spade is a fork. He actively entered a physical fight with the police. Wrestled, outmuscled the them. Stole their weapon. Then shot at them. Stop me when any of this is incorrect. I'd call a fight. Do you have to do a full round of bare knuckle boxing for you to consider it a fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: Exactly that! Put a warrant out for his arrest, he sobers up and comes in or they have his car, his address, easily have his work place Asks the question what sort of repercussions are there for the officers is he escapes I would expect that in the UK his front doors getting smashed off its hinges at 6am the next day, then his girlfriends, then his parents... Then he's turning up The only thing I can think of is they have arrest quotas and/or success rates that they're judged on. They were so insistent on arresting this man from the jump. His first offence was simply blocking the drive-thru lane for some chain restaurant. What was even the purpose of calling for backup after that? How hard was it to let the guy sleep it off in the parking lot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: He actively entered a physical fight with the police. Wrestled, outmuscled the them. Stole their weapon. Then shot at them. Stop me when any of this is incorrect. I'd call a fight. Do you have to do a full round of bare knuckle boxing for you to consider it a fight? Would you say that fight starts the second the police officer grabs his hand? Or does it only go from resisting to fighting because of the victims actions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Keyblade said: The only thing I can think of is they have arrest quotas and/or success rates that they're judged on. They were so insistent on arresting this man from the jump. His first offence was simply blocking the drive-thru lane for some chain restaurant. What was even the purpose of calling for backup after that? How hard was it to let the guy sleep it off in the parking lot? I'd be surprised if the advice to deal with a drink driver is to just let him sleep it off. I'm pretty sure that's an offence in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Keyblade said: What annoyed me was that the cop came back to him after he told him in a friendly manner to go park his car and sleep it off. Everything was nice and easy. The exchange should've been over right then and there! Do they have an arrest quota or something? Dude was tired, fell asleep in the drive-thru lane and he complied and parked in the parking spaces to continue his nap. Also the way the second cop tried to arrest him was only going to bring trouble. Just grabbing a drunk guy like that and twisting/contorting his arms. Unless he was completely off his rocker, who's going to completely comply like that? I agree with the sentiment of what you’ve written but no, I don’t believe they should have just let him sleep it off and leave it at that, the dude was asleep behind the wheel in a drive thru lane for fast food, he was a danger to himself and others without a doubt. And that’s not a holier than thou comment, I’ve been done for drink driving when I was younger and I deserved my day in court, as did he, that he didn’t get it is the tragedy because it was totally unnecessary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 15 minutes ago, villakram said: Ask and you shall receive. Keep this man as far away from a microphone as possible. **** me, can you imagine the "debates" between these two? They've not got a full set of marbles between them. Neither of them seem to be mentally competent to run a bath. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Davkaus said: **** me, can you imagine the "debates" between these two? They've not got a full set of marbles between them. Neither of them seem to be mentally competent to run a bath. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: I'd be surprised if the advice to deal with a drink driver is to just let him sleep it off. I'm pretty sure that's an offence in itself. I'm also sure it's not to try and handcuff him without telling him what he's under arrest for and reading him his rights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 18 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: He actively entered a physical fight with the police. Wrestled, outmuscled the them. Stole their weapon. Then shot at them. Stop me when any of this is incorrect. I'd call a fight. Do you have to do a full round of bare knuckle boxing for you to consider it a fight? I'm sorry, I watched a number of angles from it and to me a physical fight is literally that....they tried to take him down, he "wrestled" free and ran. That isnt a fight to me, he resisted arrest, struggled free and went. No punches, no elbows, no kicks....in fact no positive, confrontational positive at the police officers apart from getting free and running with the taser. Apologies if I have missed the scene where he punched, elbowed, kicked the officer as such.......that to me is a fight. What I saw was resisting arrest and struggling free...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 15 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: I agree with the sentiment of what you’ve written but no, I don’t believe they should have just let him sleep it off and leave it at that, the dude was asleep behind the wheel in a drive thru lane for fast food, he was a danger to himself and others without a doubt. And that’s not a holier than thou comment, I’ve been done for drink driving when I was younger and I deserved my day in court, as did he, that he didn’t get it is the tragedy because it was totally unnecessary. For sure, I agree. In an ideal world (or at least not the USA), by all means write him up. But if your de-escalation techniques are that poor and any benign situation can end in you discharging your gun, I was just thinking perhaps you should've just let that one slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 The problem is much bigger than the minute details of this one incident. It’s very unlikely that you are going to find a black and white example of a crazed cop murdering an innocent suspect, you have to accept that there are going to be uncomfortable details in every case. However, when you have the statistics you do for how many black people are killed by police every year in the US, there are clearly massive issues with the whole system of policing over there that need structural reform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 23 minutes ago, villa4europe said: I'm also sure it's not to try and handcuff him without telling him what he's under arrest for and reading him his rights I'm not sure that's true, I believe that they only need to read them their rights after they've been arrested and he was in the process of saying 'I believe you have been driving under the influence' or words to that effect just before the guy did a runner. They're investigating it as a homicide anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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