HanoiVillan Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 There's always a tweet . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted April 23, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 Of course corporate chain restaurants went to the front of the queue for relief money. The Cider House is still waiting. And even if we get a check, the money will be out the door the next day and I'll still be in the shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 On 22/04/2020 at 09:18, chrisp65 said: Perhaps a couple of the U.S. contributors would care to add their thoughts? About what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, maqroll said: About what? About, er, on the er, stuff we were talking about back there. American political culture, their views on personal freedom kinda trumping society in a way it tends not to in much of Western Europe. About how the religious angle was on the wain but then had a resurgence after Vietnam and Watergate as people were disillusioned with politicians ability to keep America great. All those upstart 1970’s pressure groups, The Eagle Foundation, Phyllis Schlafly, Danial Patrick Moynihan, The Heritage Foundation, Young Americans for Freedom. All of them realising you could promote ‘Christian values’ and people would follow without reading the small print. It was just that we all had our opinions on it, and I wondered if anyone on the ground had an opinion on our opinions. Yeah, I’ve been reading again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 23, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 23, 2020 23 hours ago, bickster said: nah Seems I was wrong 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) If you're from Nebraska and your great grandfather fought off Indians and hunted bison or if you're from Georgia and you grew up in a Pentecostal church, your ideas about guns and religion are going to be a lot different than someone like me who grew up in New England. I grew up around a lot of people, in an area that placed more value on education and collectivism than trailblazing pioneers did . It's an old, fundamental schism here that seems as pronounced as ever. Throw in abortion and immigration, and the schism seems unbridgeable. We haven't been helped by an activist right wing and their media flunkies who have been playing a very strategic long game since the early 70's. They demonized social welfare, they ridiculed intellectualism, they lied. And they've indoctrinated new generations of people who are even more entrenched than their grandpappy's ever were. The LA Times had a half tongue-in-cheek piece last night about how we should split up the country because our basic values and world outlook are so different from each other. It's not the worst idea, frankly. Good easy reading on the cultural differences here can be found in this excellent book- https://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures-ebook/dp/B0052RDIZA/ref=sr_1_1?crid=XMG52ME48GE6&dchild=1&keywords=american+nations+colin+woodard&qid=1587669165&sprefix=american+nations%2Caps%2C161&sr=8-1 Edited April 23, 2020 by maqroll 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sne Posted April 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2020 Socialist government, free healthcare, zero tolerance to handguns and so on? Wonder how much these mouth breathers know about Sweden? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Xann Posted April 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, Xann said: that says it all, really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: About, er, on the er, stuff we were talking about back there. American political culture, their views on personal freedom kinda trumping society in a way it tends not to in much of Western Europe. About how the religious angle was on the wain but then had a resurgence after Vietnam and Watergate as people were disillusioned with politicians ability to keep America great. All those upstart 1970’s pressure groups, The Eagle Foundation, Phyllis Schlafly, Danial Patrick Moynihan, The Heritage Foundation, Young Americans for Freedom. All of them realising you could promote ‘Christian values’ and people would follow without reading the small print. It was just that we all had our opinions on it, and I wondered if anyone on the ground had an opinion on our opinions. Yeah, I’ve been reading again. It started the moment FDR died. It is really under-appreciated how hated he was by the business lobby and how much he changed America from that existing in the roaring 20s and before, e.g., see the business plot. It simply took them ~20 years to really get things in order and start making progress that was hindered by both the massive gains FDR made and the free post-war boom the US benefitted from. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 9 minutes ago, villakram said: It started the moment FDR died. It is really under-appreciated how hated he was by the business lobby and how much he changed America from that existing in the roaring 20s and before, e.g., see the business plot. It simply took them ~20 years to really get things in order and start making progress that was hindered by both the massive gains FDR made and the free post-war boom the US benefitted from. There does seam to have been a re writing of history around the New Deal and it turning in to something the Dems have been weighed down by. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) I think, and correct me if I’m misremembering, research like the world values survey shows that the US scores relatively low on individualism. Low, as in much further down the list than its public political discourse and rhetoric might suggest. I think, and again I think this is supported by research, that what is presented as individualism and «don’t step on my lawn» is a symptom of a deep lack of institutional trust, rather than true individualist values. The great paradox here is that Norway, bastion of social democracy and the expansive welfare state, ranks at the very top when it comes to individualist values. This seems to support, contrary to right wing American political marketing, the notion that an economic and social safety net that provides real economic independence is very much a facilitator for freedom. I realise I have simplified a very complex argument here, but I believe my overall point is valid. Americans aren’t really particularily individualistic, they just really don’t trust their country’s institutions, and I think that’s particularily true for those protesting the lock downs. Edited April 23, 2020 by Michelsen 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_serpente Posted April 24, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Michelsen said: I think, and correct me if I’m misremembering, research like the world values survey shows that the US scores relatively low on individualism. Low, as in much further down the list than its public political discourse and rhetoric might suggest. I think, and again I think this is supported by research, that what is presented as individualism and «don’t step on my lawn» is a symptom of a deep lack of institutional trust, rather than true individualist values. The great paradox here is that Norway, bastion of social democracy and the expansive welfare state, ranks at the very top when it comes to individualist values. This seems to support, contrary to right wing American political marketing, the notion that an economic and social safety net that provides real economic independence is very much a facilitator for freedom. I realise I have simplified a very complex argument here, but I believe my overall point is valid. Americans aren’t really particularily individualistic, they just really don’t trust their country’s institutions, and I think that’s particularily true for those protesting the lock downs. But how can you have freedom in Norway if you have to help pay for other people's health care and maternity leave and you can't have all the guns you want?? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) Hey, remember last weekend when the President was encouraging armed insurrection against states with Democrat governors? The soap opera continues. Edited April 24, 2020 by maqroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 He hit it out of the park yesterday. Coronavirus: Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177 Quote "And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning? This will end well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 And now the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/opinion/coronavirus-states.html Quote Opinion How Would You Like to Live in the Nation of New England? Regional partnerships may offer a new framework for dealing with urgent issues on which Washington has failed to lead. By Richard Kreitner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 57 minutes ago, Seat68 said: He hit it out of the park yesterday. Coronavirus: Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177 This will end well. It's beyond self parody. It is an exquisite living nightmare. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Seat68 said: He hit it out of the park yesterday. Coronavirus: Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177 This will end well. Well if his voters took him up on it... we can only hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wezbid Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 There are no words... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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