Stevo985 Posted January 17, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) 39 minutes ago, HeyAnty said: Interesting the players you picked there. 90% play in the final 25% of the field where the only pass is backwards when pressured. The majority get goals week in week out to. When you are taking the ball off the CB's your percentage of backward passes should be lot less than that of an attacking mid I didn't really pick anybody. I chose the games from yesterday that I considered had the highest quality of players in it (Man City, Chelsea/Everton and Spurs) as I wanted to pick out a few very good players who passed the ball backwards more than Westwood to make a point, but in the end I listed every player who "Whoscored.com" had listed as a midfielder in those games, including Palace and Sunderland as they were the opposition for City and Spurs, as I felt that would give a fairer reflection. I didn't cherry pick at all, otherwise I'd have left out the players that did pass backwards less than Westwood. You're right about positioning on the pitch. But players such as Matic, Dembele, Fernando, Delph, Besic etc are in that list, passed backwards more than Westwood, and played either deeper or about the same as Westwood did yesterday. If you left out all the players that played higher up the pitch than Westwood did yesterday I imagine it would tell the same story. Your point about goals is completely true. I've already said I don't think Westwood played well and he needs to contribute more going forward. But the point that was made was that Westwood's amount of passes backwards was "not good enough". That's the point I was arguing. It's nonsense. Edited January 17, 2016 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 He's a decent player and does have a role to play IMO, especially when the tactics require a player of his sort. I think we've looked more solid of late with him back in the team. To be honest, I'd rather have him in there than Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 We do look a lot better with him in there instead of Sanchez. Although he's not as good at breaking up the play he more than makes up for it by not gifting the opposition guilt edge chances by lazily giving the ball away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) It's easy to make comparisons with players that have cost a kings ransom and then feel comfortable with Westwood. However, I look at Drinkwater. .........and then I can see where our recruitment has been second rate. Edited January 17, 2016 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 1 hour ago, penguin said: We do look a lot better with him in there instead of Sanchez. Although he's not as good at breaking up the play he more than makes up for it by not gifting the opposition guilt edge chances by lazily giving the ball away. You've got a point there Penguin, although I think both offer something the other doesn't, but as Westwood appears not to get caught in possession, I think He is the lesser of two evils. I just feel there is a better solution to that midfield berth in the medium term. We need more pace and penetration, we don't have enough movement, we don't stretch oppositions at all. Even Adama slows down attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keyblade Posted January 17, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2016 13 hours ago, Stevo985 said: A load of utter shite. As per usual. You have no idea whether 35-40% of passes backwards is good or bad, you've just assumed it's bad because it suits your agenda (and it's 34% by the way). Here's a list of the proportion of backwards passes some other midfielders made in their fixtures today: David Silva (38%) Kevin De Bruyne (51%) Yaya Toure (42%) Fernando (38%) Delph (34%) Yohan Cabaye (42%) Joe Ledley (40%) James McArthur (43%) Moussa Dembele (37%) Eric Dier (32%) Erik Lamela (56%) Deli Alli (34%) Christian Eriksen (50%) Yann M'Vila (25%) Lee Cattermole (50%) Adam Johnson (45%) Danny Graham (50%) Jon Obi Mikel (25%) Nemanja Matic (38%) Willian (50%) Cesc Fabregas (25%) Pedro (50%) Besic (45%) Gareth Barry (30%) Ross Barkley (36%) Aaron Lennon (41%) Kevin Mirallas (39%) That's everyone who was classed as some sort of midfielder who played in Man City, Chelsea and Tottenham's fixtures today, including their opponents. Of those players, according to your benchmark of "not good enough", which we'll take to be Westwood's mark of 34%, only Yann M'Vila, Eric Dier, Cesc Fabregas and Gareth Barry beat it. Players such as David Silva, Yaya Toure, Nemanja Matic, Yohan Cabaye and Christian Eriksen are, by your definition, passing the ball backwards too much and are not good enough. It's worth clarifying that I've already said Westwood didn't play very well today. But I thought we'd debunked this nonsense that he passes backwards too much months ago. Now people are just literally making up their own benchmarks to show he's passing backwards too much 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I think he is an ok player in a shit team. So starts by default really as there is no credible alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I think he is an ok player in a shit team. So starts by default really as there is no credible alternative. you're too kind. He's a shit player in a shit team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 He wasn't great the other night but he wasn't bad either. My main problem with him isn't the passes back but the missed passes forward. Keep it safe, that's great for the team but have the footwork to switch the play. I mentioned it a few weeks ago but if he wants to be a Prem midfielder he needs to actually influence the play going forward. The little MOTD show of Shelvey was exactly where Westwood hasn't progressed, I once thought he could be the player to switch the play when he sees it, or hit that pass between players while wrong footing them but he can't and he doesn't. He doesn't pass quickly enough and it's limiting him. I'll admit sometimes he does but he doesn't do it enough and it's killing us going forward. I like Veretout because he seems to have some vision and attacking positioning but he still has to rush back to defend in part because we don't have a proper CDM. If Westwood isn't a CDM and isn't progressive going forward he isn't going to help us stay up. Okay, we're not going to stay up but surely it wouldn't take much to replace/challenge him and give us a better chance in attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 9 hours ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said: He wasn't great the other night but he wasn't bad either. My main problem with him isn't the passes back but the missed passes forward. Keep it safe, that's great for the team but have the footwork to switch the play. I mentioned it a few weeks ago but if he wants to be a Prem midfielder he needs to actually influence the play going forward. The little MOTD show of Shelvey was exactly where Westwood hasn't progressed, I once thought he could be the player to switch the play when he sees it, or hit that pass between players while wrong footing them but he can't and he doesn't. He doesn't pass quickly enough and it's limiting him. I'll admit sometimes he does but he doesn't do it enough and it's killing us going forward. I like Veretout because he seems to have some vision and attacking positioning but he still has to rush back to defend in part because we don't have a proper CDM. If Westwood isn't a CDM and isn't progressive going forward he isn't going to help us stay up. Okay, we're not going to stay up but surely it wouldn't take much to replace/challenge him and give us a better chance in attack. This is just completely incorrect though. He does do all of this, and it's precisely why he's in the team. It's other areas in his game where he is lacking, but he puts us on the front foot by releasing the ball quickly and forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I cant remember him ever playing a pass to the wing like Shelvey did for 2nd goal on weekend, think it was 65 yard perfect pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I'd just like to add his shooting is an appalling. You can be sure at least once a game he will have a shot at the floodlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Wonder how he will do for us next season in the Championship. Certainly can't see him moving to a PL club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) 16 hours ago, Keyblade said: This is just completely incorrect though. He does do all of this, and it's precisely why he's in the team. It's other areas in his game where he is lacking, but he puts us on the front foot by releasing the ball quickly and forwards. It just isn't, not consistently. Watch someone who can actually pass quickly in the Prem and see how their vision/decisions compares. Yes it's different watching from the stands or on the TV, you spot the free man very easily but that's also what a quality midfielder does/sees and what Ashley doesn't. Or he does but doesn't trust himself to find the man. As I said, he does it occasionally but it's how often he misses the opportunity that should be every managers concern, especially (as I said before and you pointed out) they don't add much with the other parts of their game. I think you should watch him in the next game and see what he actually adds going forward from his position, especially in the context of Gueye's interplays and box to box moving us forward and unknown quantity Veretout looking comfortable in the final third, even starting to spot the shot. I think a truly quality player would add more, free players would get the ball without needing to wait for the middle pass and runners would get the ball in space. I want that from Westy but he simply doesn't give it anywhere near enough in the Prem. 7 hours ago, jacketspuds said: Wonder how he will do for us next season in the Championship. Certainly can't see him moving to a PL club. Which leads me here, probably pretty well. Less space but he does have quality when someones a headless chicken, perhaps a drop would resettle him. He needs challenging and you can easily drop him in that league. Also I think someone would take a chance on him. he'd make a decent squad player as he'd be cheap and on low wages. Edited January 19, 2016 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 as the creative player in our midfield today I assume he is having a stormer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 19, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) Yep. I have deduced from a game I can't see that it's all his fault. This thread is pathetic. Edited January 19, 2016 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 we have had 5 shots in 55 minutes so midfield isnt producing again by sounds of it especially with 66% possession Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 19, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Zatman said: we have had 5 shots in 55 minutes so midfield isnt producing again by sounds of it especially with 66% possession In a game that you haven't seen a second of, the only thread you choose to comment in is this one to say that you're ASSUMING Westwood isn't having a good game. Get a **** life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 According to the commentator we started with Westwood and Sanchez as our 2 holding midfielders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 19, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 19, 2016 Just now, Bunnski said: According to the commentator we started with Westwood and Sanchez as our 2 holding midfielders. Begone with your facts! It's all Westwood's fault! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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