Risso Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 He was dodgly in the first half, and better in the second. If we play 4-3-3 with the current squad, he has to play. I'd be tempted to go 4-4-2, and have Gueye and Veretout as the two central midfielders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claretman Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 My 13 yr old lad said to me towards the end of the match "I think Westwood would be good at rugby". Me-"Why" Him-"Because he always passes backwards". He's learning fast! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted January 16, 2016 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2016 Just now, claretman said: My 13 yr old lad said to me towards the end of the match "I think Westwood would be good at rugby". Me-"Why" Him-"Because he always passes backwards". He's learning fast! That didn't happen, did it? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 16, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2016 He made 50 passes today, 17 went backwards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claretman Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Indeed it did. I think he must have picked it up from my whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 16, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2016 Just now, claretman said: Indeed it did. I think he must have picked it up from my whining. A lower proportion of his passes went backward than Gana and Gil. Maybe your moaning should be directed at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claretman Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Oh don't worry, I've done plenty of moaning about everyone this season. Westwood just stands out as very crab like to me and very limited. Gil is too weak but at least tries to be incisive, I'm not sure about Gana at all yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 9 minutes ago, claretman said: My 13 yr old lad said to me towards the end of the match "I think Westwood would be good at rugby". Me-"Why" Him-"Because he always passes backwards". He's learning fast! So would our whole midfield then, as statistically Sanchez is our only midfielder that has a higher forward pass percentage than Westwood, and that's because he always standing next to our CBs. But no yeah, Westwood only passes backwards obvs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claretman Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 I think our midfield as a whole is poor-I have no particular beef with Westwood but he has been around for a few seasons now and in my opinion is a very limited footballer. If you rate him and want to use stats to support his forward passing then fine. Granted, he doesn't pass the ball to the opposition like Veretout did tonight or like Sanchez does once a match in a dangerous area but he is not incisive in his passing whatever the stats say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Once relegated we need to rebuild something here. I hope Garde realises westwood should not be a part of that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 So stats show that around 35-40% of Westwood's passes are backwards. Not good enough. I don't get how highlighting that two other dog shit midfielders passing it back even more, proves otherwise. A big reason why the last 4 seasons have been a load of turgid rubbish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poitier Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Apart from the goal, the highlight of the game was Westwood's back heel to Cissokho that left two Leicester players looking stupid. I'm not saying that makes him a good player, but if Veretout had done it there would be animated gifs of it on every page. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted January 17, 2016 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Woodytom said: So stats show that around 35-40% of Westwood's passes are backwards. Not good enough. A load of utter shite. As per usual. You have no idea whether 35-40% of passes backwards is good or bad, you've just assumed it's bad because it suits your agenda (and it's 34% by the way). Here's a list of the proportion of backwards passes some other midfielders made in their fixtures today: David Silva (38%) Kevin De Bruyne (51%) Yaya Toure (42%) Fernando (38%) Delph (34%) Yohan Cabaye (42%) Joe Ledley (40%) James McArthur (43%) Moussa Dembele (37%) Eric Dier (32%) Erik Lamela (56%) Deli Alli (34%) Christian Eriksen (50%) Yann M'Vila (25%) Lee Cattermole (50%) Adam Johnson (45%) Danny Graham (50%) Jon Obi Mikel (25%) Nemanja Matic (38%) Willian (50%) Cesc Fabregas (25%) Pedro (50%) Besic (45%) Gareth Barry (30%) Ross Barkley (36%) Aaron Lennon (41%) Kevin Mirallas (39%) That's everyone who was classed as some sort of midfielder who played in Man City, Chelsea and Tottenham's fixtures today, including their opponents. Of those players, according to your benchmark of "not good enough", which we'll take to be Westwood's mark of 34%, only Yann M'Vila, Eric Dier, Cesc Fabregas and Gareth Barry beat it. Players such as David Silva, Yaya Toure, Nemanja Matic, Yohan Cabaye and Christian Eriksen are, by your definition, passing the ball backwards too much and are not good enough. It's worth clarifying that I've already said Westwood didn't play very well today. But I thought we'd debunked this nonsense that he passes backwards too much months ago. Now people are just literally making up their own benchmarks to show he's passing backwards too much Edited January 17, 2016 by Stevo985 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 The use of such a contextless and broad stat to prove or disprove anything is pointless. It takes neither position on the field when making the pass or the type of pass into account (I'm sure those who argue that he passes backward too much aren't calling for more ever so slightly forward horizontal balls). IMO the debate is being taken too literally and what really is the point of contention, for the majority anyway, is a perceived negativity and excessive emphasis on safeness in his play, which is manifesting itself in this backward pass percentage debate ridiculousness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 17, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, penguin said: The use of such a contextless and broad stat to prove or disprove anything is pointless. It takes neither position on the field when making the pass or the type of pass into account (I'm sure those who argue that he passes backward too much aren't calling for more ever so slightly forward horizontal balls). IMO the debate is being taken too literally and what really is the point of contention, for the majority anyway, is a perceived negativity and excessive emphasis on safeness in his play, which is manifesting itself in this backward pass percentage debate ridiculousness. I'm sure that's the case, and it's probably a valid point. But it was Woodytom who made the debate literal and broad by setting his made up benchmark. Edited January 17, 2016 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jackbauer24 Posted January 17, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2016 I find it amazing how different fans see such different things from the same player. I was watching him so closely today, on and off the ball, as this thread was in my mind as I believe he gets far too much abuse. No-one is going to call him a world beater but he is so reliable and was a calm influence in a midfield that was charging around physically (but at least accurately today Gana) and misplacing every pass (Veretout). He tidied up numerous tricky situations, he seemed to create quite a few chances (even a clever back heel to put Cissokho in space) and he worked his socks off. Everyone around me thought he played very well today. I wonder if people get a different impression when they watch it on TV. I know I'm wasting my time on here, people who hate him are never going to change their mind. He's not a player who goes on surging runs or scores wonder goals but he is so very neat and tidy with the ball. He's not as good as either Gana or Veretout on a skills basis perhaps but he's a hell of a lot more consistent. He's also loads better than any of our sub options. This passing the ball backwards/sideways thing that has already been broached above is ridicuolous - it's often required to retain possession and a few times he got us out of tricky positions and nipped in to get the ball back to a defender or into a safer area. Surely in his role we should expect him to have nearly a 50/50 ratio on direction, to start our attacks and break up others. He's not our best player, no doubt about it, but I'd strongly suggest he's our most underrated. We have a lot of bad players who get due stick, and he'll have better games some days than others but I never hear a single groan at VP when he's on teamsheet. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Westwood is the kind of player who joins a team together with good positioning, sensible passes, a cool head, intelligent game management, and overall reliability. Players like that will look good when the team is going well, and poor when the team is struggling. The idea that getting rid of Westwood will fix Villa is slightly preposterous and shows an ignorance of football (remember, it's not a PlayStation game). If we were pushing for Champions League then yeah, by all means beat up on him, but at our current level he is perfectly adequate and the problems lie elsewhere: wingers who don't create chances, strikers who don't score goals, defenders who make mistakes... it's not that complicated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 10 hours ago, Phumfeinz said: This guy could be faced with an open goal at 5 yards and he'd still turn around and pass it backwards. And this myth is still going strong I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I think he is improving. I saw at least one shot and a few forward attacking passes. His retention is always good. I just want a bit more thrust and energy from midfield and I don't think he's got that in him, but I can see a glimmer of improvement in his game. I think to improve the midfield an upgrade is needed here, that's all, he's not the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieVillan Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 11 hours ago, Stevo985 said: He made 50 passes today, 17 went backwards. How many went sideways?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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