Ashley Westwood

[DCJonah]

I like how by Westwood missing one game, he has suddenly became the reincarnation of Franz Beckenbauer.

I like how "Westwood was a huge miss for us yesterday" somehow translates to "he's the reincarnation of Franz Beckenbauer" (who is not dead, so I am not sure how he can be reincarnated already). It's saddening that any praise for a player who's been very good for us this season is dismissed and ridiculed in this fashion.

I know. How dare VILLA fans praise a VILLA player.

On the same hand, the fact that some people expend so much energy into disliking a VILLA player is a bit strange.

As strange as using a defeat to gloat about your opinion on a player?

Hah.

i didn't use the defeat. That implies I wanted use to lose so I could be right.

I don't think you wanted us to lose but I do find it strange that you jumped on the opportunity a defeat gave you to mock and insult others

[Woodytom]

 

 

 

 

I must admit, turning a game that Westwood didn't play in, and you didn't see, into a negative against him is incredible dedication.

This thread is **** stupid.

I didn't turn it into a negative. I merely said that I did not feel that he was missed as much as people have made out.

You could suggest Westwood had a strand of hair out of place on here and you would be seen to have a vendetta against him.

that's not true though.

There are people who criticise Westwood for legitimate reasons.

It usually prompts a decent debate.

You, on the other hand, mostly make up arguments. Its been the same ever since Westwood started playing and you were making up statistics (yeah. I remember that)

So the last two years have shown nothing to suggest he would have made a difference to the capitulation after the first goal. Is that not a decent debate?

If it's not, and quite frankly, I couldn't give a monkeys whether you think it is or not, then why bother responding at all. If my posts about Westwood really upset you and Stefan in the way they seem to then why do either of you respond at all? My presence in this thread is normally prolonged by either you or him challenging my points, which is fine, I enjoy the nature of this website.

That said, it has got to a point, where the pair of you just jump on my back at any given opportunity with seemingly no interest in reading or acknowledging my points.

I came in this thread with quite a long post that actually acknowledged positives of Westwood but that also highlighted that I did not feel he would have made a difference to what I believe was the reason we lost the game. If you want to go back and read it, and indeed disagree, then let me know. Its about 2 pages back. Though I'll be more expecting a response of 'I can't be arsed, it's pointless arguing with you', which appears to be simply because I don't agree with you.

Don't flatter yourself.

I "jump on your back" because I disagree with your point in here. Which is the point of the forum?

No I don't think that is a decent debate because you didn't see the game so how could you know what would or wouldn't have helped avoid our capitulation?

I have no opinion either way. Would Westwood have helped? I don't know. I didn't see the game.

If I had to answer that question then I'd say its possible, as he's one of our best players and the verdict seems to be that his replacement didn't have a good game. So just as having Vlaar or Benteke in the team would have helped, maybe Westwood would have helped.

But what I won't do is draw a conclusion on what we were or were not missing yesterday because I didn't see the game.

 

 

This seeing/not seeing the game is nonsense imo. 

 

Christian Benteke has been our leading goalscorer in the past 2 years. I don't need to have seen any of the games this season to know that we are missing him up front. There is many ways I can determine that we are missing him. Shots on target/goals for example. 

 

You can form an opinion of a game that you have not seen. Do you have to have seen the civil war in Yemen to form an opinion? Or can I form an opinion based on the experiences of my best friend, who happens to be Yemeni and was out there a few weeks ago.

 

True, my opinion is stronger if Ive seen it, but that does not mean my opinion is completely invalid. You may not be interested in it, and that is fine. But it is not invalid.

[andym]

My opinion is that he's been a good player for us generally, although he's always had his faults, and excellent this year.

 

My opinion is also that some people use any reason to have a go at him and it's been like that (as Stevo says)(sorry donnie) since he's signed.

 

No polarised viewpoint from me here.

 

not sure thats entirely true - you've basically used 1 game where we lost and he was also missing (along with several other players and the rest of the team being unwell) to come on here and crow about how we lost because westwood was missing (thats how it comes across anyway) and anyone who doesnt agree with you and rate westwood needs to admit they are wrong and doesn't know anything about football.

 

plenty of people have tried to have a reasonable debate about why they dont think he would have made a difference, and yet have been met with dismissive and mocking replies.

 

i can only imagine your reaction if people started quoting your posts and telling you that you know nothing.

 

i watched the game yesterday, ive watched pretty much every game over the last 2 seasons. i've seen what happened yesterday many many times over that period even with westwood in the team. based on that, i dont happen to think he would have made much difference yesterday.

[StefanAVFC]

 

 

 

 

 

I like how by Westwood missing one game, he has suddenly became the reincarnation of Franz Beckenbauer.

I like how "Westwood was a huge miss for us yesterday" somehow translates to "he's the reincarnation of Franz Beckenbauer" (who is not dead, so I am not sure how he can be reincarnated already). It's saddening that any praise for a player who's been very good for us this season is dismissed and ridiculed in this fashion.

I know. How dare VILLA fans praise a VILLA player.

On the same hand, the fact that some people expend so much energy into disliking a VILLA player is a bit strange.

As strange as using a defeat to gloat about your opinion on a player?

Hah.

i didn't use the defeat. That implies I wanted use to lose so I could be right.

I don't think you wanted us to lose but I do find it strange that you jumped on the opportunity a defeat gave you to mock and insult others

 

 

I didn't 'jump' on anything.

 

I watched the game (unlike some)(sorry donnie) and from the debates I've had on here, numerous of which were IMO unwarranted criticism of Westwood, I made a comment. I still stand by it. If you think that comment is a huge insult, you're incredibly precious.

Edited September 21, 2014 by StefanAVFC

[DCJonah]

I think calling people who don't agree with you clueless about football on a forum designed to discuss football, is both arrogant and pretty insulting. If that makes me precious so be it. There were no debates about Westwood for this game though. The minute the game was over you started to have a go at people before anyone had said anything, using the defeat to justify it.

Anyway this is pointless so I'll agree to disagree on this matter.

[Stevo985]

You can form an opinion of a game that you have not seen. Do you have to have seen the civil war in Yemen to form an opinion? Or can I form an opinion based on the experiences of my best friend, who happens to be Yemeni and was out there a few weeks ago.

True, my opinion is stronger if Ive seen it, but that does not mean my opinion is completely invalid. You may not be interested in it, and that is fine. But it is not invalid.

it depends on what that opinion is.

"That's a bad result" that's fine. Obviously. You don't need to have seen the game to have that opinion.

But if the opinion is based on things that you'd actually have to have seen the game to know then yes, I think it makes that opinion invalid.

Don't like Westwood. That's fine. I just can't see how you can say he wouldnt have helped yesterday when you haven't seen the game. That's baffling to me.

Anyway it doesn't matter.

[Woodytom]

 

But if the opinion is based on things that you'd actually have to have seen the game to know then yes, I think it makes that opinion invalid.

 

 

But I don't think I do need to have seen the game to have the opinion I have. 

 

Put it this way, if I was to say that, 'had we have had Messi, Ronaldo, Alonso, Muller, Kompany, Fabregas, Pique and Neuer all playing for us then we would probably have got a different result' would you agree?

 

I still haven't seen the game, yet I am using my experience of seeing those players over a number of past games to form my opinion.

 

That is what I have done with Westwood, along with hearing it on the radio, reading the reports, listening to my ST friend, watching the highlights, listening to the experts, reading about the virus, knowing that we were playing a far far better team. Im really not plucking an opinion from my arse here.

[Stevo985]

Let's just agree to disagree.

Wherever you got your opinion from, it basically boils down to you not thinking Westwood is any good so you don't think he would have helped.

That's fine. Just don't act surprised when people imply you might be being harsh on him just because you don't like him (or have a vendetta as you called it)(sorry Donnie)

[Woodytom]

Let's just agree to disagree.

 

 

Ok

 

 

Wherever you got your opinion from, it basically boils down to you not thinking Westwood is any good so you don't think he would have helped.

 

 

Not true, I am starting to see qualities that I have highlighted after games this season but that have gone unnoticed.

 

 

 Just don't act surprised.

 

 

I don't.

 

 

 just because you don't like him

 

I don't dislike him, I just don't think he is good as people make out. Nothing against him at all.

 

 

(or have a vendetta as you called it)

 

Influenced by Stefan who has referred to it as a vendetta for sometime.

 

 

(sorry Donnie)

 

I have clearly missed the joke with this.

[VillanousOne]

I have to say I never bought into this solid but unspectacular crap, he always looked average and never did one thing particularly well.

 

But he has continued to improve, his attitude is superb and he is working hard to justify his place in the team.

 

His set piece taking has massively improved as his first touch and overall confidence.

 

I don't want to get carried away though as he still doesn't set the world alight but with players like Delph, Cleverly, Richardson, Rock (when he gets up to speed) there to offer him protection it does look like he will get a bit more freedom to be more creative.

We certainly missed him against Arsenal

[HanoiVillan]

I'm not going to bother quoting vast numbers of nested comments, but two points. 

 

Firstly, I think Westwood has been a good player but not a great player, who is nevertheless improving all the time and has had an excellent start to the season.  

 

Secondly, I do want to take issue with the notion that 'seeing' the game is crucial to commenting on it. I 'saw' the game on TV here in Vietnam. Concurrently, I ate dinner, drank a bottle of wine, talked with a friend and browsed the match thread on this website. Even if I'd paid complete and close, monk-like attention to the game, TV cameras still follow the player with the ball, so you miss all sorts of off-the-ball movement. What about at the ground? Well, that's better for sure, but the view from behind the goal in the North Stand is hardly that good is it? etc etc. I just don't buy that somebody who 'saw' the game live has a more accurate impression of it than someone who has read an article or an analysis by an expert, or who has listened to the game being summarised on the radio by an actually intelligent summariser (ie, not Robbie Savage). 

[Bunnski]

Wow how can people think that it's possible to have a proper opinion of a game without seeing it?  If you listen on radio or read an article then your opinion is based on what someone else sees.  This is a new low imo, like seriously?    Westwood is pure class, it's plain for anyone to see(not read or listen!).  The guy has been improving constantly and is our most consistent player.   

[Rob182]

It's shocking how many people put Sanchez in over Westwood in the "Our strongest lineup" thread .

Why? Just because Sanchez has been average in his first few games in the Premier League? People put Benteke in their 'strongest 11' too, but I'm sure they don't mean the currently injured and not match fit version.

It's not crazy to think that Sanchez could become a much better player, once he gets a few more appearances under his belt.

[Stevo985]

 

It's shocking how many people put Sanchez in over Westwood in the "Our strongest lineup" thread .

Why? Just because Sanchez has been average in his first few games in the Premier League? People put Benteke in their 'strongest 11' too, but I'm sure they don't mean the currently injured and not match fit version.

It's not crazy to think that Sanchez could become a much better player, once he gets a few more appearances under his belt.

 

But we know how Benteke plays. He's played for us before, in this league, and has shown himself to be excellent.

 

Sanchez has yet to show anything so I think including him instead of Westwood in our strongest XI is harsh. You're right, he might be better. But we're really only guessing at this point.

[Dodgyknees]

@Woodytom: You seem to be missing one key point - if those players weren't absent we might not have gone behind in the first place.

Ping!

[Rob182]

But we know how Benteke plays. He's played for us before, in this league, and has shown himself to be excellent.

Sanchez has yet to show anything so I think including him instead of Westwood in our strongest XI is harsh. You're right, he might be better. But we're really only guessing at this point.

Some people might have seen him in Spain/ World Cup and made an opinion of how they think/hope he will play for us.

I agree, It's definately guessing, but the whole thread is people guessing what they think will be our best 11. People could chose our best 11 players, according to their average performances for Villa, but could still put them in a formation that, if put into practice, could be dreadful. It's all guesswork.

To be honest, I can't remember what I put, I have a feeling that I put Westwood and Sanchez in there. I just think it's a bit premature to be implying that people are wrong to put Sanchez in for Westwood.

[welshvillan]

Really hope Westwood is back soon. I think he is an important player for us. I missed the game and highlights don't give enough indication, but I would have thought cleverley could have taken on the Westwood piece quite easily.... Would have done the same as Paul and played Sanchez although that appears to have been an oversight. Need Westwood back for Chelsea, perhaps 5 at the back would be best if we still don't have VLarr a point would be sufficient

[Brumerican]

 

It's shocking how many people put Sanchez in over Westwood in the "Our strongest lineup" thread .

Why? Just because Sanchez has been average in his first few games in the Premier League? People put Benteke in their 'strongest 11' too, but I'm sure they don't mean the currently injured and not match fit version.

It's not crazy to think that Sanchez could become a much better player, once he gets a few more appearances under his belt.

 

I just find it shocking that's all. Sanchez has done nothing of note in his entire career . He is 28 and has played for nobody , won very little (if anything?) and seems to be living off the fact that he is foreign and played at a world cup !

Westwood is 24 and has shown that he is more than capable of playing in this league  . If anyone is going to get better it will be him.

[KSV]

One thing I noticed ( I watched the game) cleverleys set pieces/corners are much better than AW. We can't base how much we missed him on that game as half the team were ill and not up to scratch.

[Oaks]

I think Westwood was the straw that broke the camels back Saturday. I think a few more people might appreciate him a bit more, although mainly because Sanchez was way off the pace.