Hughes Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: It wasn't sufficient to sack him and wouldn't be grounds to sack someone in another area of employment. Interesting. Are you a labor law lawyer? I would 100% object to that view, espeically the later part of your legal assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan. Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Again and again people compare a footballers contacts to their own, it's a completely pointless observation. It's chalk and cheese. I'm pretty sure our solicitors would have exploited every possible avenue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted August 5, 2016 Moderator Share Posted August 5, 2016 Gabby wasn't physically unable to train. He was in less than ideal shape, hence the mortifying mid-season trip to fat club. But that's not the same as 'unable'. So straight away you're on very shaky ground. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwishIwasalivein1982 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 He looks like he's lost a lot of weight this season. I think he knows how badly he f***** up last season and wants to make amends. I think he has a place in our squad but not as a started. He'd make a decent impact sub in my opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Richard said: On what grounds 45 minutes ago, Hughes said: for being physically unable to train with the first team last season and quite simply not fit to be a professional footballer?? The club confirmed this much themselves. In any other trade it would without a shadow of a doubt be sufficient to sack someone - he was declared unfit to do his job! 28 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: The same grounds we sacked McCleish, Lambert, Sherwood and Garde on? Not performing to an acceptable standard in their job. No the correct response to "on what grounds" is ALL of them, Villa park, city ground, hillsborough, elland road etc etc etc 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Fit or not fit he has no football ability what so ever. He can still run rather fast (if he has lost all his flab) but he can't run fast and control the ball at his feet, or beat his man. And since his attitude stinks he wasn't even bothered to make runs without the ball to open up space for his teammates. With the ball at his feet he is completely useless, and as we are supposedly going to play a possession based football, in what situation do we put him in? When we are behind chasing a goal? That would be pointless against a deep lying defense. When we wan't to defend a lead? Nothing he's shown in the last 5 seasons says that he will have the attitude to do the work needed. Even if we disregard his terrible attitude, unprofessional behavior, his supposed bad influence in the dressing room and the outrageous wages he's on, he's still not a good enough footballer to warrant a place at the club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 5, 2016 Moderator Share Posted August 5, 2016 26 minutes ago, Hughes said: Interesting. Are you a labor law lawyer? I would 100% object to that view, espeically the later part of your legal assessment. No but I've spent almost 20 years in recruitment and a great deal of time speaking to employment lawyers. You are obviously free to disagree with me. It is a little hard to relate the situation with Gabby to a normal employment scenario but its hard to see how you could legitimately move to a dismissal under gross misconduct on the basis of what happened. Anyway, he wasn't sacked despite seemingly being surplus to requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 30 minutes ago, BOF said: I'm not going to write him off if he can contribute this season. But it's all on him to prove he can. By all accounts he has lost a load of weight since last season. I've read anything from 1 to 3 stone although the 3 may have been slightly tongue in cheek. My one and only priority is Aston Villa Football Club and if Gabby Agbonlahor can do anything to aid in our promotion then I think we use him the way we would use anyone else. To ignore a resource would be negligent. Now if he doesn't shape up or if he doesn't warrant a place based on merit then fine, don't use him, the way I wouldn't use any player just for the sake of it. But if he's willing to bust a (much reduced) gut to right a wrong then far be it from me to deny ourselves that. Let's face it. He owes us one after last season. So let's see if he can start to repay it. If he features then we can assume RDM has seen something he likes on the training ground, and if he features then he'll have done some work to get in ahead of the other guys up front! I agree that there is a small possibility that he might be able to score a few goals and maybe do something in the Championship.....BUT the risk of him upsetting the harmony in the dressing room, or pissing off the other players with his attitude massively outweighs (see what I did there?) any of the benefits we *might* get from giving him (yet another) chance. Leicester last season proved how important/effective a hard working team with no disruptive influences is. Unfortunately Gabby has burned/eaten too many bridges to come back from last season. If last season was a one-off, it may have been different - he has been ineffective for a number of seasons now - and the reasons for this poor performance is unimportant - given the behaviour last season on top of seasons of ineffectiveness, the door is very very firmly closed. He needs to be kept away from the team/squad at all costs. If the rumours about another striker in, on top of the statements about keeping Ayew are correct, then the writing is on the wall for him. I do however agree with the statement earlier about his family life and kids meaning that he is unlikely to want to move away from the midlands, which will severely limit the number of clubs that would want his services. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 13 minutes ago, Richard said: No the correct response to "on what grounds" is ALL of them, Villa park, city ground, hillsborough, elland road etc etc etc I was going to suggest Tarmac, grass, sand, but then I thought school grounds would be good. It would set a good example to the kiddies of what a poor attitude gets you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 10 minutes ago, It's Your Round said: It would set a good example to the kiddies of what a poor attitude gets you. Too true, a £2.5m house and a Lambo! That'll learn the little bastards. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 38 minutes ago, Ryan. said: Again and again people compare a footballers contacts to their own, it's a completely pointless observation. It's chalk and cheese. I'm pretty sure our solicitors would have exploited every possible avenue. Agree, these are fixed term contracts for starters which have different legal standing, and will no doubt contain lots of small print and clauses that are way above my level of understanding. We are also talking about something that is played out in a far more public domain than you or I are employed in, and for far bigger sums of money. It would be a big risk, which could end up costing the club twice as much in solicitor fees if we took a wrong decision and end up in court. Not only that, but if done incorrectly drags the name of the club through the mud at the same time. I want him gone, as I think he took the piss too many times now for my liking. I think we will probably be stuck with him though for the exact same reasons Trent pointed out previously in the thread. Our only way out is to pay his contract up in full, and release him, but that will cost us the best part of £5m pounds I think. I guess the club will hold out as long as possible in the hope that some sucker makes a late move for him and offers him more money to move. Which in my mind is very unlikely given his performances of the last few years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Just now, rodders0223 said: Too true, a £2.5m house and a Lambo! That'll learn the little bastards. Never thought of it that way, mind you half the kids there will be his anyway so I guess they'll already know that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Gabby is the only one I would consider paying off to get rid this summer. I'm not sure how this has happened, but his influence at the club seems to have grown many factors beyond his ability to perform, to inspire or to lead. He has set the bar very low for what constitutes professional behavior at the club and his example set on and off the pitch last year was appalling. The chances of him making a positive contribution this year are pretty small and I think are rather heavily outweighed by the risk of him being a bad influence on the group. He is certainly not going to be first choice so I hate to think what he might get up to when he realises that he won't really have to be match fit as most of the time he won't get a game. A little bit of motivation in pre season does not mean he can sustain it over 48 games whilst largely being on the periphery and my money is firmly on him getting unmotivated real fast and falling back into old habits. I'd rather get rid now rather than have to deal with him mid season spreading his unique brand of team bonding. The reason why I think we may have to pay him off and not others is that I cannot see anyone wanting to buy him and I don't see Gabby leaving under his own steam. Even as a free agent I struggle to think of a club that will meet his salary expectations and be a place that Gabby would be willing to go and I don't see Gabby being prepared to take a big pay cut to keep playing for a significantly smaller team. In short I see his only future as a football player at Villa where he won't get a game, when he is finished here even at his relatively young age I think he is finished in the professional game. Pay him off, stick him on gardening leave, or let him go on a free (if anyone will have him), just don't let him be around the squad (senior or junior) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughes Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 43 minutes ago, BOF said: Gabby wasn't physically unable to train. He was in less than ideal shape, hence the mortifying mid-season trip to fat club. But that's not the same as 'unable'. So straight away you're on very shaky ground. Well, that is quite pedantic, I did not expect to be drafting legal briefs at VT. If you turn up drunk at work you are most likely "able" to be at your workplace and do some of the work - you will, however, be in "less than an ideal shape" and although not "unable" to work you will perform substantially below any reasonable expectations of your employer and there will (at least if this happens for some time) clearly be legal reasons to terminate your employment relationship. Now, footballers have contracts which differ from "ordinary employees" in this respect, so this is not comparing apples to apples. However, as I have argued on previous occassions, even for footballers there need to be some kind of a minimum expectation level and if you need to, as you say, be sent to fat club it really should be possible to sack you. I for one would welcome and support Villa if they did and took the legal fight. Anyway, too late now but thankfully it looks like he has no part to play this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Sack him. Pay him off, make him sit at home. Which ever you choose as long as he isn't near the club is the correct option imo. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted August 5, 2016 Moderator Share Posted August 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, Hughes said: Well, that is quite pedantic, I did not expect to be drafting legal briefs at VT. If you turn up drunk at work you are most likely "able" to be at your workplace and do some of the work - you will, however, be in "less than an ideal shape" and although not "unable" to work you will perform substantially below any reasonable expectations of your employer and there will (at least if this happens for some time) clearly be legal reasons to terminate your employment relationship. Now, footballers have contracts which differ from "ordinary employees" in this respect, so this is not comparing apples to apples. However, as I have argued on previous occassions, even for footballers there need to be some kind of a minimum expectation level and if you need to, as you say, be sent to fat club it really should be possible to sack you. I for one would welcome and support Villa if they did and took the legal fight. Anyway, too late now but thankfully it looks like he has no part to play this season. We're both on the same side here and I agree with your assessment. I would also be on the side of the club if they ever chose to go down that route, because one would assume they would not choose that path lightly, and therefore would presumably have damn good reasons. I'm just saying that; as you mentioned; the legal path IS very very pedantic and it will endevour to find every inconsistency or flaw to its own ends. Using unambiguous terms like 'unable' when 'able' can be argued; reasonably or otherwise; would have it thrown out I think in seconds. Oh and never underestimate VT's ability to be pedantic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjenkins Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Despite everything that happened last season, I don't think I'll ever be able to bring myself to hate Gabby, and I would love nothing more than to see him score 15 goals in the Championship this season as a major contributor to our glorious promotion. I can accept that he is limited as a footballer, and often excused his dwindling goal tallies as a consequence of being played increasingly as a left winger. I know full well they are excuses, but football is about experiences and memories for me, and for so many years Agbonlahor has featured in the best of those. Getting out of shape was the most disappointing thing from my perspective as a fan, knowing what many of us would go through to ever have a chance of having Gabby's job. Obviously it's much easier to point fingers at those like Lescott and Richards whose Villa careers started much more recently (and aren't our leading Premier League goalscorer) but like them I feel like the fanbase has turned on Gabby in a way which cannot be recovered. Maybe for that reason alone we would all be better off were he find pastures new. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 So lescott tweets a pic of a car after a bad defeat and is unforgivable in some people's eyes. Yet people will give this parasite a second chance after his antics last season plus the fact he is shit full stop. The mind boggles. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Hughes said: Well, that is quite pedantic, I did not expect to be drafting legal briefs at VT. If you turn up drunk at work you are most likely "able" to be at your workplace and do some of the work - you will, however, be in "less than an ideal shape" and although not "unable" to work you will perform substantially below any reasonable expectations of your employer and there will (at least if this happens for some time) clearly be legal reasons to terminate your employment relationship. Now, footballers have contracts which differ from "ordinary employees" in this respect, so this is not comparing apples to apples. However, as I have argued on previous occassions, even for footballers there need to be some kind of a minimum expectation level and if you need to, as you say, be sent to fat club it really should be possible to sack you. I for one would welcome and support Villa if they did and took the legal fight. Anyway, too late now but thankfully it looks like he has no part to play this season. You have never had to deal with a HR department, have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 5 hours ago, BOF said: I'm not going to write him off if he can contribute this season. But it's all on him to prove he can. By all accounts he has lost a load of weight since last season. I've read anything from 1 to 3 stone although the 3 may have been slightly tongue in cheek. My one and only priority is Aston Villa Football Club and if Gabby Agbonlahor can do anything to aid in our promotion then I think we use him the way we would use anyone else. To ignore a resource would be negligent. Now if he doesn't shape up or if he doesn't warrant a place based on merit then fine, don't use him, the way I wouldn't use any player just for the sake of it. But if he's willing to bust a (much reduced) gut to right a wrong then far be it from me to deny ourselves that. Let's face it. He owes us one after last season. So let's see if he can start to repay it. If he features then we can assume RDM has seen something he likes on the training ground, and if he features then he'll have done some work to get in ahead of the other guys up front! Look I'm pretty sure you know my feelings on Gabby- however I fail to see how losing weight can make him become any more gifted as a professional footballer and this is where the problem lies- quite simply in my opinion he is just not very good- I'm afraid it's down to hard currency and he doesn't cut it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts