A'Villan Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, limpid said: What "true message"? The one about dividing families? The one about selling all your belongings and buying a sword? Or the one about "dying" for a couple of days to atone for all mankind's sins, which were imposed by him? I'm not a bible scholar, mate. Nor am I really interested in defending something I am ignorant in. I take what serves a purpose and leave the rest. FWIW, as I said, maybe not one of my better posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted January 31, 2019 Administrator Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, A'Villan said: I'm not a bible scholar, mate. Nor am I really interested in defending something I am ignorant in. I take what serves a purpose and leave the rest. FWIW, as I said, maybe not one of my better posts. I just asked a question. What do you think the "true message" is meant to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, limpid said: I just asked a question. What do you think the "true message" is meant to be? Sure. I guess I feel resistant to addressing it because I don't have a concrete idea. Here's an attempt. That when we act with affinity, benevolence and for the common good the world can be the kingdom of heaven. Edit: Throw in a bit of altruism too. Edited January 31, 2019 by A'Villan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted January 31, 2019 Administrator Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, A'Villan said: Sure. I guess I feel resistant to addressing it because I don't have a concrete idea. Here's an attempt. That when we act with affinity, benevolence and for the common good the world can be the kingdom of heaven. Then you're correct that you aren't a Bible scholar That would require some serious cherry picking from the gospels and the stuff Paul made up later when he was building a religion in his own image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, limpid said: Then you're correct that you aren't a Bible scholar That would require some serious cherry picking from the gospels and the stuff Paul made up later when he was building a religion in his own image. I'll take your word for it. I've been told my whole life, by people far more qualified than me, that the message of the bible is atrocious for the most part. My Mum saw to it that I was to sit out of Religious Education classes at school. Perhaps a blessing, I wouldn't know any different. Yet every time I read a passage (providing that I can understand the language and context) it strikes me as a fairly wholesome outlook on how you might treat other people. I have read more of the Quran. Seems to be inclined to persecute anyone who lacks faith. And I take this as the kind of message that has been misconstrued from the true message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted January 31, 2019 Administrator Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, A'Villan said: I'll take your word for it. I've been told my whole life, by people far more qualified than me, that the message of the bible is atrocious for the most part. My Mum saw to it that I was to sit out of Religious Education classes at school. Perhaps a blessing, I wouldn't know any different. Yet every time I read a passage (providing that I can understand the language and context) it strikes me as a fairly wholesome outlook on how you might treat other people. I have read more of the Quran. Seems to be inclined to persecute anyone who lacks faith. And I take this as the kind of message that has been misconstrued from the true message. I think you are conflating old testament with new. The old testament describes at least 8 reasons to kill your own children. Even in the bits of the new testament where Jesus is "quoted", the messages are varied, which is why I don't understand the term "true message", not what "Christ-like" means. I always picture him with a sword dividing families because he said that in his own words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 hours ago, A'Villan said: I'll take your word for it. I've been told my whole life, by people far more qualified than me, that the message of the bible is atrocious for the most part. My Mum saw to it that I was to sit out of Religious Education classes at school. Perhaps a blessing, I wouldn't know any different. Yet every time I read a passage (providing that I can understand the language and context) it strikes me as a fairly wholesome outlook on how you might treat other people. I have read more of the Quran. Seems to be inclined to persecute anyone who lacks faith. And I take this as the kind of message that has been misconstrued from the true message. Could be worse... there's loads of Stalin/Hitler/Manson/May that you could read and take all sorts of things from even though you are fairly ignorant of the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted February 26, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 26, 2019 George Pell, one of the pope's inner most advisors, has been found guilty of historical sexual assault today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/04/birmingham-school-stops-lgbt-lessons-after-parent-protests Quote primary school that taught pupils about homosexuality as part of a programme to challenge homophobia has stopped the lessons after hundreds of children were withdrawn by parents in protest. Parkfield community school in Saltley, Birmingham, has been the scene of weekly protests over the lessons, which parents claim are promoting gay and transgender lifestyles. In a letter to parents, the school said: “Up to the end of this term, we will not be delivering any No Outsiders lessons in our long-term year curriculum plan, as this half term has already been blocked for religious education (RE). Equality assemblies will continue as normal and our welcoming No Outsiders ethos will be there for all.” Advertisement On Friday about 600 Muslim children, aged between four and 11, were withdrawn from the school for the day, parents said. The school would not confirm the number. The school made clear that it had never intended to continue the No Outsiders lessons this half term and confirmed that the lessons would resume only after a full consultation with every parent. Last month, the Guardian reported that the assistant headteacher of the school was forced to defend the lessons after 400 predominantly Muslim parents signed a petition calling for them to be dropped from the curriculum. Andrew Moffat, who was awarded an MBE for his work in equality education, said he was threatened and targeted via a leaflet campaign after the school piloted the No Outsiders programme. Its ethos is to promote LGBT equality and challenge homophobia in primary schools. Moffat, the author of Challenging Homophobia in Primary Schools who is currently shortlisted for a world’s best teacher award, resigned from another primary school – Chilwell Croft academy, also in Birmingham – after a similar dispute with Muslim and Christian parents. Parents have been protesting outside the Saltley school, which is rated as outstanding by Ofsted. At one protest they held signs that read “say no to promoting of homosexuality and LGBT ways of life to our children”, “stop exploiting children’s innocence”, and “education not indoctrination”. Children from reception age through to year six were being taught five No Outsiders lessons a year, each one covering topics to meet requirements in the Equality Act. Books being read by the pupils include Mommy, Mama and Me, and King & King – stories about same-sex relationships and marriages. However, after the inclusion of the programme in the curriculum, Moffat, who is in a civil partnership, faced protests and the removal of children from the school. The school appealed to parents to stop the protests, saying they were “upsetting and disruptive” for the children. In a letter to the parents, the trustee board of Excelsior Multi Academy Trust, which runs the school, confirmed that after a meeting between Andrew Warren, the regional schools commissioner for the West Midlands, parents, the trust, and Liam Byrne MP, it was decided that a full consultation would take place with parents. The letter said: “The discussions were a helpful first step and identified the key issues that are concerning parents, including the ethos, the books, the age appropriateness, the lessons and the assemblies. The agreed outcome of the meeting was the need to have a discussion with the school community about the No Outsiders curriculum and how it should be delivered.” The issue was first raised by Fatima Shah, who pulled her 10-year-old daughter out of the school, saying children were too young to be learning about same-sex marriages and LGBT rights in the classroom. “We are not a bunch of homophobic mothers,” she said. “We just feel that some of these lessons are inappropriate. Some of the themes being discussed are very adult and complex and the children are getting confused. “They need to be allowed to be children rather than having to constantly think about equalities and rights.” Shabana Mahmood, the MP for Birmingham Ladywood, spoke out after parents in her constituency complained that primary schools were teaching their children about same-sex relationships. She said parents did not oppose sex and relationship education, but felt their children were too young for some of the things being taught. Speaking in a Commons debate, Mahmood said: “None of my constituents is seeking particular or differential opt-outs at secondary school level. It is all about the age appropriateness of conversations with young children in the context of religious backgrounds.” Mahmood, who has backed gay rights legislation in the Commons including voting for same-sex marriage, said the government should ensure the rights of minorities were protected, but that included the rights of people with orthodox religious views, including some Jews and Christians as well as some Muslims. However, the chief inspector of Ofsted, Amanda Spielman, supported the school, saying it was vital children knew about “families that have two mummies or two daddies”. Byrne, whose constituency includes the school, has suggested parents, faith leaders in the Muslim community and the LGBT rights group Stonewall could work together on a curriculum. The schools minister Nick Gibb said it was important for schools to take the religious beliefs of their pupils into account when they decide to deliver certain content to ensure topics were handled appropriately **** this and **** Shabana Mahmoud. Bigoted **** heads the lot of them. Nick Gibb can go **** himself too. **** religious belief having any influence on education at all. If they want to inflict the loony life on their poor children, they can do it at their **** insane institution of choice, not in a **** school. Edited March 5, 2019 by Rodders 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted March 5, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2019 I've heard a lot about Moffat recently. Sounds a very decent chap and has done some great work. The No Outsiders program seems like an excellent idea to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Religion and homosexuality are incompatible. Well only one of them is natural and makes sense so religion can **** off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 5, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2019 I don't get this term "promoting homosexuality". It's like saying "promoting having blue eyes" or "promoting tallness". Sexual preference is something that just IS, like gravity, or evolution. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 5, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 5, 2019 7 hours ago, mjmooney said: I don't get this term "promoting homosexuality". It's like saying "promoting having blue eyes" or "promoting tallness". Sexual preference is something that just IS, like gravity, or evolution. It's the language of Clause 28 rearing its ugly head again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 7, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2019 This is religion... shameful! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted March 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 7, 2019 On 31/01/2019 at 10:59, limpid said: I bet if Jeshua existed, he'd hate that people don't use his real name. The stories portray an unassuming bloke (most of the time) who wouldn't have wanted these superfluous titles. And it was written that another young man would one day have the same cross to bear, while some have referred to him as @Paddywhack, the records of one of his contemporaries would later lead us to know him better as “Jerome”. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 7, 2019 This isn't acceptable. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 7, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted March 7, 2019 I'd like just one of them to explain to me why homosexuality is 'wrong' - without recourse to quoting magic books and sky fairies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted March 8, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 8, 2019 11 hours ago, mjmooney said: I'd like just one of them to explain to me why homosexuality is 'wrong' - without recourse to quoting magic books and sky fairies. How would that be possible given that their entire worldview, belief system, “ethical” code is derived straight from such source material? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Someone get a quote from May about this, please! I'd like to be angry or something, but this is the same old from those types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 19, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 19, 2019 4 more schools drop the No Outsiders programme. Indefensible. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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