El-Reacho Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Their contracts won't run out, as they're on 1 year rolling deals. So what they run on an on for ever? Rolling contracts are either permanent 365 days contracts for which you've always got 12 months remaining or they are 12 months from one date and renew on that date each year. Nobody knows which these guys are on but personally I'd suggest that it is the later which is why I think things will become clearer on or around the 1st. As it stands I don't think we want to pay compo to Norwich when they will soon be out of contract or be able to exit before the renewal and I don't think Norwich want to terminate their employment. So as I said, come the 1st July which is the normal date that contracts within football end or renew, we will I think see things happen. Seems a bit odd though. The compensation due would be negligible as there's about a week left on their contracts. NCFC would be behaving like children if they made the two guys see out their contract just for the sake of it, particularly with their own new management team in charge. I reckon PL is still looking for the right guys and Culverhouse and Karsa might not be the ones. Yes it is odd but clearly relations between Norwich and Villa aren't the best at the moment and you've got people with points to prove/settle and you've got a man in McNaulty who seems to want a fight. As for the compensation due, it doesn't automatically follow that the amount of compensation due decreases with the weeks that pass of the contract. For instance the contract could state that there is a £1m exit/compensation clause at any point the contract is broken. We just don't know. As for Norwich acting like children, I wouldn't quite go that far but they've not conducted themselves very well. They had a manager with a clause allowing him to speak to us and they refused, they should have known they couldn't do that, they should have known they were making things worse for themselves but seemingly they didn't. If they had just allowed Lambert to talk to us they would have got their compensation. Norwich have already replaced the pair, they won't be staying at Norwich I'm sure and they will end up here. I just don't see Lambert recruiting a new team its just a case of when they join and my guess is it will be around the 1st July. I hope you're right Trent, as they seem to be a big part of Lambert's success - but I'm still not convinced. If their contract runs out at the end of June as is being speculated, and they know they're going to Villa, Villa know they're coming to Villa, and Norwich know they're coming to Villa - then why keep them and hold out for compensation when they're never going to get it - as Villa can just suffer the inconvenience of waiting a week. That makes any compensation irrelevant IMHO - and Norwich are being very petty, particularly when they are innocent bystanders in this. Hypothetically, if Lambert in fact didn't want them at Villa, and they no longer have a position at Norwich how can McNaulty justify not releasing them? Have they definitely been replaced by Norwich? This makes it a pretty strong case for constructive dismissal surely? It's not their fault that Lambert left and NCFC appointed new coaching staff. Like I say - hopefully all will be resolved come July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folski Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 What I'd give for a Mark Delaney type signing £250k and just shy of 200 appearances. Really hope Lambert, if he does stay close to home when signing players is able to churn out a few of the gems. Least we forget, looking at the current England squad, Hart was in at Shrewsbury, Green played in the Championship with Norwich, Butland is still in the Championship with Blues, Baines played as low as Divison 2 with Wigan, Jagielka spent years in the Championship with Sheffield United, Lescott was at Wolves, Walcott was at Southampton, Young Watford, Ox Southampton, Carroll Newcastle. 10/23 isn't bad. Then there's other players like Walker, Smalling, Johnson, who didnt make the cut. Bale only cost £5mil up front a big risk you migh say but we paid more than that for Delph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Agreed there is plenty of talent in the lower leagues. All of these great players start somewhere and most are gettable when they are young. If you want to build a great team you need to buy young talent. We have some experience in Given, Dunne, Ireland, Gabby, Bent, N'Zogbia. We could probably do with a little bit more but for the majority of our signings, I would want young and hungry. I think Lambert will target that kind of player too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 21, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2012 I hope you're right Trent, as they seem to be a big part of Lambert's success - but I'm still not convinced. So do I mate, not for the sake of being right but because as you say they appear to be a big part of Lambert's success to date. If their contract runs out at the end of June as is being speculated, and they know they're going to Villa, Villa know they're coming to Villa, and Norwich know they're coming to Villa - then why keep them and hold out for compensation when they're never going to get it - as Villa can just suffer the inconvenience of waiting a week. Personally I think you answer your own question. I don't think either will remain at Norwich but there is clearly bad blood between the two clubs and McNally inparticular seems pissed off and spoiling for a fight, perhaps because he knows he messed up. They don't have many card to play or ways of flexing their muscles to get at Villa but holding on to these guys as long as they can is about the best they can do. Its been 2 weeks since we got Lambert, it could be a month between appointing him and his backroom team. Small victory for a petty man perhaps. What I would say is turn this on its head, if they aren't coming Lambert doesn't seem like the sort of guy that would hang around on sorting out replacements. Hypothetically, if Lambert in fact didn't want them at Villa, and they no longer have a position at Norwich how can McNaulty justify not releasing them? I'm sure he will when the contract, if he releases them early he will still have to pay them the same so he might as well try and disrupt us in the process. If they were staying I think one or both would have said so in the media by now. Have they definitely been replaced by Norwich? This makes it a pretty strong case for constructive dismissal surely? It's not their fault that Lambert left and NCFC appointed new coaching staff. In my view they have although I'm sure Norwich have been very careful in terms of job titles but Hughton took 3 members of staff with him I can't see that they are wanted or needed. As for constructive dismissal yes there is a potential case there which I posted about when Hughton and his team got the job but I can't see it being made. Like I say - hopefully all will be resolved come July. I think it will be mate, if it isn't on or around the 1st I'll be very surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Agreed there is plenty of talent in the lower leagues. All of these great players start somewhere and most are gettable when they are young. If you want to build a great team you need to buy young talent. We have some experience in Given, Dunne, Ireland, Gabby, Bent, N'Zogbia. We could probably do with a little bit more but for the majority of our signings, I would want young and hungry. I think Lambert will target that kind of player too. I'm sure Randy would have made that abundantly clear to him in the interview/courtship that any funds will need to be spent in that way. He'll want the Milner/Young/Downing type of signings that get you fighting for Europe and can flog at £10m profit rather than the Heskey £50k a week being blown for 4 years kind of signing. Tough ask but achievable for someone with Lambert's talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 And the players aren't back until July 1st so we literally don't need coaches for the next 10 days. Sorted.Whilst I do not think there is any panic, and I am still confident they will be with us soon, I do not necessarily agree with this I think coaches would want to make sure the place is set up for training, that schedules etc are in place and that the systems are what they want hem to be. Anyway like I said I still think they will be with us. The first bit of training will be all Adrian Lamb anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 21, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think coaches would want to make sure the place is set up for training, that schedules etc are in place and that the systems are what they want hem to be.Bodymoor Heath is set up for training and they will bring their own methods and timetables that have stood them well to date. The location has the equipment and they have the methodology. So other than knowing where the equipment room is, there's nothing - or certainly very little - they need to do at BH before the players come back IMHO.Anyway like I said I still think they will be with us.Me too but I think their arrival will co-incide very closely with the players' arrival, probably because Norwich will play brinksmanship, as is their right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hercs23 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Woke up this morning buzzing for the next season: New manager New kit Fixtures been released No heskey and mcleish next season Looking forward to transfers in and out Cant wait!! UTV!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Just make sure we sign the next 'Bale' instead of the next Delph. Delph can still be a good player, but just hope all his injuries are behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops_AVFC Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 'James Nursey @JamesNursey Checked on Lambert compensation row latest between PL, #NCFC & #AVFC . Told still in hands of lawyers. Potential saga methinks' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic_bouma Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 All this can't be good really can it... Is compensation going to affect transfer money?.... Can we not move for Cully and Karsa until it is sorted?... i know we football fans are renowned for being impatient but i just want it done with now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folski Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Just make sure we sign the next 'Bale' instead of the next Delph. Delph can still be a good player, but just hope all his injuries are behind him. I agree, think he needs to bulk up a bit as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 If lambert wants Culverhouse and Karsa nobody (including McNally) can stop him bringing them to Villa. They have fairly low paid jobs (in footballing terms) and their contracted roles look to have been changed without their agreement. They can either be signed by the payment of a small amount of compensation, or they can resign due to the enforced change in their company positions. I guess they're enjoying a relaxing holiday at the moment having been kept fully informed of Paul Lambert's intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrythevillan Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Gary Karsa has just come back from holiday. His nephew told me he's pretty sure he'll join us. He doesn't seem to know too much but thought it was plausible he'll come in July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrythevillan Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Culverhouse will probably join. not so sure about Karsa as faulkner appears to perform that role already. Karsa's role is much more hands on. He gets involved in training sessions but also the transfers dealings which is why he's got this broad title. He was complaining about how Snodgrass wanted ridiculously high wages when Norwich tried to sign him. Hopefully that will put him off wanting to go back in for him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazilla Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 'James Nursey @JamesNursey Checked on Lambert compensation row latest between PL, #NCFC & #AVFC . Told still in hands of lawyers. Potential saga methinks' This makes perfect sense, although knowing what lawyers are like we could be in for a long wait. Lawyers are like rhinos - they are short sighted and charge alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityangel Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 'James Nursey @JamesNursey Checked on Lambert compensation row latest between PL, #NCFC & #AVFC . Told still in hands of lawyers. Potential saga methinks' If he had a straightforward clause in his contract saying he could speak to any premier clubs then why would this be dragging on with solicitors and talks of a tribunal. Re Culverhouse/Karsa, they are on a rolling 12 month contract with presumeably no clause to speak to anyone else, so if someone else wants them they are going to have to pay 12 months compensation otherwise I suspect they will stay on our employment, presume we are diggng our heels in until the Lambert compensation/clause issue is sorted which could drag on for months. Or it could be that Culverhouse having played for us, having family ties in Norfolk wants to stay here and be part of CH's coaching team, who knows, none of us we're only guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 'James Nursey @JamesNursey Checked on Lambert compensation row latest between PL, #NCFC & #AVFC . Told still in hands of lawyers. Potential saga methinks' If he had a straightforward clause in his contract saying he could speak to any premier clubs then why would this be dragging on with solicitors and talks of a tribunal. Re Culverhouse/Karsa, they are on a rolling 12 month contract with presumeably no clause to speak to anyone else, so if someone else wants them they are going to have to pay 12 months compensation otherwise I suspect they will stay on our employment, presume we are diggng our heels in until the Lambert compensation/clause issue is sorted which could drag on for months. Or it could be that Culverhouse having played for us, having family ties in Norfolk wants to stay here and be part of CH's coaching team, who knows, none of us we're only guessing. Well that is the whole point.. Norwich apparently didn't honour this clause, hence the solicitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Re Culverhouse/Karsa, they are on a rolling 12 month contract with presumeably no clause to speak to anyone else, so if someone else wants them they are going to have to pay 12 months compensation Nobody in their right minds would sign a contract like that, so if C & K were dim enough to do so, we are probably better off without them. otherwise I suspect they will stay on our employment, presume we are diggng our heels in until the Lambert compensation/clause issue is sorted which could drag on for months. Or it could be that Culverhouse having played for us, having family ties in Norfolk wants to stay here and be part of CH's coaching team, who knows, none of us we're only guessing.Hmmm. Norwich would certainly have a lot of coaching staff next season under that scenario. :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 22, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2012 Is compensation going to affect transfer money?.... No. Compo will be relative peanuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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