Sportswash! - Let’s oil stare at Manchester City!

[b6bloke]

No football hasn't died yet but it is dying fast!

I'm sick of hearing city fans say that everyone else is jealous when in reality we just want a fair playing field within reason.

It is like a go cart race where everyone builds there own only for someone with a load of cash just turning up in an Audi R8, wheres the fun.

Its all down to the wages at the end of the day so cap it!

[Hanky]

I don't think football is dead but it isn't getting any better. How can you justify the wages that your players will be on, it's ridiculous. I don't think the average wage for a footballer is justified let alone the money some players are getting.

[TrentVilla]

Thanks for the history lesson Democles it wasn't needed.

If you refuse to admit the damage City and clubs with wealth like it are doing to the game then so be it but please don't come on here expecting people to agree with you and laughing at their views when they don't.

By all means enjoy the moment and the glory you are going to buy heaven knows your club has waited just about its entire history for it to happen. Just don't be surprised of fans of other teams aren't happy for you or pleased to see money further destroying the game.

Man City were always a popular club with other fans, I always liked the club and the fans ever since the title run in between Villa and Utd in the early 90's and your fans celebrated our goals against their own side.

City and their fans have always had a charm and humour about them but the club is set to become one of the most hated in the country you are going to have to adjust to that its the price that you are going to have to pay. Its up to the fans how they want to be viewed, they can count themselves lucky beyond belief and maintain the reputation they had or they can act like they some how deserve it, that the club deserves the success that is coming and that what they are doing isn't bad for football.

If your fans take the second route they will end up being hated the same way as those who support the other lot in red who claim to share your city. The early indications are that the City fans will forget themselves and become just like your neighbours which is sad really sad.

[ml1dch]

We had a good few players who are at least in contention for the first team though, and our back triangle of Hart, Lescott and Kompany is expected to be our first choice next season

So where will your £150k per week captain be playing?

Do you honestly believe that Kolo Toure is on £150k a week?

I know, I'm clearly an idiot who has been led to believe that you are paying even more ridiculous wages that footballers normally receive. He's probably earning no more than average.

What pittance are you paying him then?

[KAZZAM]

Man City are just a laughing stock,You may spend all this money on lavish players but its irrelevant without a decent manager to actually bind the players together and build the team core ala Mourinho Chelsea era.I dont see Manchini as a long term manager at Man City so there will never be a stable team there to ever challenge for the league.

[Damocles]

Thanks for the history lesson Democles it wasn't needed.

If you refuse to admit the damage City and clubs with wealth like it are doing to the game then so be it but please don't come on here expecting people to agree with you and laughing at their views when they don't.

The history 'lesson' wasn't directed at you, it was making a point about the cylical nature of football and the fact that all of these things have been said and done before. City are no different from a string of clubs who have done the same thing. Besides, ridiculous views deserved to be laughed at. "The death of football"? Yep, I'm sure the 92 will just pack it in now that City have a bit of money.

Also, I didn't expect anything but the responses I get. I'm not exactly sure how you are forecasting my expectations either.

By all means enjoy the moment and the glory you are going to buy heaven knows your club has waited just about its entire history for it to happen. Just don't be surprised of fans of other teams aren't happy for you or pleased to see money further destroying the game.

You realise that we've already won the league, FA cup, league cup, and Cup Winnners Cup? You also realise that outside the last thirty years, we've been a top club since about 1898? How old are you?

I'm sure it's City who buy the glory. All of Villa's players play for free and came through their youth system. John Carew had pictures of Dalian Atkinson on his wall as a kid, one day just wishing that he could emulate his hero. £60,000 a week is perfectly fair, upstanding and honourable. £120,000 a week is classless, immoral and should be banned dammit!

Man City were always a popular club with other fans, I always liked the club and the fans ever since the title run in between Villa and Utd in the early 90's and your fans celebrated our goals against their own side.

City and their fans have always had a charm and humour about them but the club is set to become one of the most hated in the country you are going to have to adjust to that its the price that you are going to have to pay. Its up to the fans how they want to be viewed, they can count themselves lucky beyond belief and maintain the reputation they had or they can act like they some how deserve it, that the club deserves the success that is coming and that what they are doing isn't bad for football.

If your fans take the second route they will end up being hated the same way as those who support the other lot in red who claim to share your city. The early indications are that the City fans will forget themselves and become just like your neighbours which is sad really sad.

This is the thing though, the fans have hardly changed a bit. There's a small (and young) element of our fans who are the shouters, but the main core group, over 90% of them, haven't changed at all.

As I have said before, I'm an admin over on the Bluemoon forum, I spend all day in the company of internet City fans, I go to the pub and drink with City fans, then go to the game and talk to more City fans. In addition to this, I have written for fanzines, blogs, etc and received feedback or letters. I wouldn't presume to tell you the attitude of Villa fans, and I'd hope you would extend me the same privilege about City fans.

City fans will become the most hated in the country simply because of journalistic platitudes that people throw out about our club. Examples, Yaya on £220k a week (he isn't), Tevez transfer fee £57m (it wasn't), City linked with X player for Y amount (which we really can't help), City about to throw out all youth players (wrong), etc.

We buy foreign, we ruin the game by killing off chances for young English players; we've actually been blamed by some parts of the media for England having a shit World Cup. We buy English, we ruin the game because we are paying overinflated prices for players such as Lescott.

I don't think people are jealous, some will be and that will form a resentment towards us, but I don't think most are. The resentment is down to speed. The fact is, if City were to buy one player a season for £30m, nobody would blink an eye about us and the way that we are doing things. People's problem is that we are buying all at once. I have no idea why this is a problem to any other fan in the world, I suppose you could make the inflated transfer price argument, but there's evidence to the contrary, such as Villa's move to Barcelona and Benayoun's move to Chelsea.

Seriously, I argue that City aren't bad for football, because I honestly don't see it. I didn't see the logic in the argument that Chelsea were bad for football either. Maybe it's down to people's view of football. I recognise that football is and always has been a business. As shown in the post above, there has never been a time in the whole history of the game where it wasn't dominated by money. For the past 20 years the footballer has been out of reach to the average man, wage wise. I don't particularly see this as a bad thing either. Football clubs are private companies, let them spend their money on whatever they like.

I don't understand the idea of money and corporatism ruins the game. We have better facilities, we have safer stadiums where you can take your family, we have higher profile players who do much more for charity and pay much more tax into the UK coffers. The idea of players playing for loyalty and not money NEVER existed. Ever. It's a myth, a complete fabrication. Even Paul Dickov at City played for the money, even if it was the Second Division money. Tell the Villa squad that they won't get paid for a year and see how many of them stay. Or, tell them that they are all getting their expenses paid, and a small wage of £10,000 a week. Think about that; ten thousand pound every single week. They'd baulk at it and walk away tomorrow. So would United players, City players, Burnley players, Hull players, etc.

Players do establish a rapport with the fans and start to love the club eventually, like Goater at City or McGrath at Villa. They become legends who do do things for the fanbase because of love not money, but to pretend that they played for anything else to start off with is foolish.

As I say, our fans will definitely become (more) hated than they already are, and it has very little to do with us and more to do with people's perception of us. I earlier posted a "Tears of Joy" video, I could also post a lot more of that type of activity that the club has done, or the fanbase has done.

Can anyone really give me a list of objections about City that are based in fact and not crap that you've read in the paper?

Man City are just a laughing stock,You may spend all this money on lavish players but its irrelevant without a decent manager to actually bind the players together and build the team core ala Mourinho Chelsea era.I dont see Manchini as a long term manager at Man City so there will never be a stable team there to ever challenge for the league.

Mancini's won trophies everywhere he has ever been, is only young, and is personal friends with the both the Sheikh and our Chairman. He'll stay.

[ml1dch]

Can anyone really give me a list of objections about City that are based in fact and not crap that you've read in the paper?

Gary Cook.

An objection all by himself.

[Damocles]

Any particular reason?

[Chindie]

Bluenose, has really, really objectionable ideas for the league, general air of twattishness.

I wonder if this is how Glaston started out.

[TrentVilla]

The history 'lesson' wasn't directed at you, it was making a point about the cylical nature of football and the fact that all of these things have been said and done before. City are no different from a string of clubs who have done the same thing.

It doesn't matter who the history lesson was aimed at, it was what it was and most didn't need it myself included.

As for you claim that City are no different from a string of clubs we will have to agree to disagree because despite you long winded attempt nothing you can say will convince me what is happening at City has happened elsewhere before, the closest examples are perhaps Blackburn and Chelsea but neither are close to what is happening at City.

You realise that we've already won the league, FA cup, league cup, and Cup Winnners Cup? You also realise that outside the last thirty years, we've been a top club since about 1898? How old are you?

Yes I am aware thanks, as I said patronising comments and history lessons aren't needed.

I'm sure it's City who buy the glory. All of Villa's players play for free and came through their youth system. John Carew had pictures of Dalian Atkinson on his wall as a kid, one day just wishing that he could emulate his hero. £60,000 a week is perfectly fair, upstanding and honourable. £120,000 a week is classless, immoral and should be banned dammit!

Did I say you were?

This is the thing though, the fans have hardly changed a bit. There's a small (and young) element of our fans who are the shouters, but the main core group, over 90% of them, haven't changed at all.

Once again I didn't say you had, talk about reading what you want to read. Read again what I wrote, I was actually paying City fans a compliment and talking about 'if's' but you read it how you want to read it.

I said about early indications suggesting that some of your fans will take the second route and that has been the experience I and other opposition fans have had. Its specificially the view of City fans and the behaviour of City fans to other fans that I'm making reference to so your experience or contact with other City fans isn't really important.

Unless you support another side and meet City fans as the supporter of another club you can't really comment on how they act or are viewed. I'm not presuming to tell you the attitude of City fans I'm talking about perception there is quite a big difference, once again read what you want to read though you seem to be developing the Man Utd the worlds against us complex very quickly.

I'm fond of City and their fans as I said, you ignored that and I read Bluemoon, I'm hardly someone who hates your club but you have instantly gone on a defensive.

City fans will become the most hated in the country simply because of journalistic platitudes that people throw out about our club. Examples, Yaya on £220k a week (he isn't), Tevez transfer fee £57m (it wasn't), City linked with X player for Y amount (which we really can't help), City about to throw out all youth players (wrong), etc.

No it won't be that. It will be the way the club conduct themselves and the way the fans conduct themselves. Ask an Everton fan like AG their view on City after the buisness with Lescott.

We buy foreign, we ruin the game by killing off chances for young English players; we've actually been blamed by some parts of the media for England having a shit World Cup. We buy English, we ruin the game because we are paying overinflated prices for players such as Lescott.

Well I've not seen anyone blame Man City for England's performance.

Seriously, I argue that City aren't bad for football, because I honestly don't see it. I didn't see the logic in the argument that Chelsea were bad for football either.

Well I have no option but to take you word for that, its very easy to say in your situation.

As I say, our fans will definitely become (more) hated than they already are, and it has very little to do with us and more to do with people's perception of us.

As I've said you can't really judge being a City fan yourself. Personally I noticed a difference as an away fan at the game this year compared to years gone bye and I'm sure I wasn't the only one.

[kidlewis]

It's quite clear that City are getting a bit annoyed by these over inflated prices, especially Mancini. But if our player is under contract, you're going to end up paying more than other teams like Arsenal, Barcelona, Inter etc. Because you have more money than all the premiership clubs put together.

so it's quit fair for Villa and other teams to do that. (e.g. the joke that is the Lescott transfer).

No way is Toure worth £24m, but you paid it, because you did what you needed to do to make them sell.

For Villa I don't think Milner is worth £24m, but you're gonna have to pay that or more to get him. We'd probably sell to United for £18-£20m but they don't have $500bn in the bank.

It's what City will have to do to get their way, it's completely unsustainable because you can't spend £200m every transfer window. Also it means the players you buy like Barry etc will end up going for way less than you paid for them.

I can't see anyone stopping City get 4th or even a host of titles in the coming years, but I can see a revolving door of bargains coming out of the back door as well as a host of managers if it doesn't start to bring trophies soon.

You only need to look at Chelsea and Real Madrid to see that.

Millions doesn't buy you success all the time.

[The_Rev]

For Villa I don't think Milner is worth £24m, but you're gonna have to pay that or more to get him. We'd probably sell to United for £18-£20m but they don't have $500bn in the bank.

Do you seriously believe that? Wow.

[Damocles]

It doesn't matter who the history lesson was aimed at, it was what it was and most didn't need it myself included.

It was making a point about the similarities between those cases and the accusations being levelled at us; an explanation is usually more than helpful in those cases. Besides, how intimately familiar are you on the subject of 19th century Manchester football history? How exactly was I to know that a Villa fan would know the history of John Davis and Billy Meredith. Most United fans don't know the history of John David and Billy Meredith.

As for you claim that City are no different from a string of clubs we will have to agree to disagree because despite you long winded attempt nothing you can say will convince me what is happening at City has happened elsewhere before, the closest examples are perhaps Blackburn and Chelsea but neither are close to what is happening at City.

A fine attitude to debate with. "I know what I know and nobody can convince me otherwise". Regarding Chelsea and Blackburn; the sums of money are different though the basis of operation is the same. I'd be interested to see the difference between City and Blackburn's spending with a inflation adjusted tag. What was the British transfer record when Blackburn were throwing around the cash, and how much did they spend?

Yes I am aware thanks, as I said patronising comments and history lessons aren't needed.

If the history lessons aren't needed, then I need you to explain what "waiting our whole history to achieve" means, as you've lost me.

Did I say you were?

Yes. You did:

"By all means enjoy the moment and the glory you are going to buy heaven knows your club has waited just about its entire history for it to happen"

Once again I didn't say you had, talk about reading what you want to read. Read again what I wrote, I was actually paying City fans a compliment and talking about 'if's' but you read it how you want to read it.

I said about early indications suggesting that some of your fans will take the second route and that has been the experience I and other opposition fans have had. Its specificially the view of City fans and the behaviour of City fans to other fans that I'm making reference to so your experience or contact with other City fans isn't really important.

Unless you support another side and meet City fans as the supporter of another club you can't really comment on how they act or are viewed. I'm not presuming to tell you the attitude of City fans I'm talking about perception there is quite a big difference, once again read what you want to read though you seem to be developing the Man Utd the worlds against us complex very quickly.

I'm fond of City and their fans as I said, you ignored that and I read Bluemoon, I'm hardly someone who hates your club but you have instantly gone on a defensive.

I think you're right about the defensive, you were talking about the future and I read it as you talking about the now. I misjudged the tone and misread the post, apologies.

No it won't be that. It will be the way the club conduct themselves and the way the fans conduct themselves. Ask an Everton fan like AG their view on City after the buisness with Lescott.

Again though, it's just daftness the accusations over the Lescott saga. We put a bid in for him, it get's rejected, Hughes says something along the lines of "He's a good player, I'd like him" and suddenly we're the worst thing that ever happened to football? How is this different from Harry's catchphrase?

Besides, if Everton didn't want to sell him, he would still be an Everton player. Watch what Barcelona would have done if we offered £100m for Messi. They'd say no. All Everton had to do was say no until we stop bidding and moved on to the next target. Instead, their clearing in the woods of a manager decided to make the whole thing this big public display. Do you know what Moyes' main complaint over City was? That "City showed him no respect, because Hughes didn't ring him and ask if he was available for transfer". Why exactly he feels like he needs to be rang, I'm not sure. Our Chairman will deal with their Chairman to thrash out a deal, we didn't need Moyes permission to bid for him. Did anybody ask Stuart Pearce if he'd mind if we sold SWP to Chelsea? Of course not, football just doesn't work that way.

Well I've not seen anyone blame Man City for England's performance.

Specifically, Neil Ashton in the NOTW and in particularly Brian Woolnough at the Star stated exactly that. Then there's the Talkshite lot, but I rarely pay much attention to them.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/143254/Man-City-spending-spree-kicks-England-in-the-teeth

"For one big reason why England fail so consistently at the World Cup and European Championship, look no further than Eastlands."

He has a bit of a point really. Oh, apart from Joe Hart, Nedum Onohua, Micah Richards, Joleen Lescott, Wayne Bridge, Adam Johnson, Gareth Barry, Michael Johnson and Shaun Wirght Phillips. Then there's the England U-20's side, who recently fielded a team with 7 City players playing in it. Then there's the fact that in a little under 10 years, we've brought through 30 players from our youth systems and last year gave debuts to Boyata, Cunningham, Nimley, Trippier, Ibrahim and Mee. Oh and that we keep buying young English players like Henshall from Swindon.

Ahem. Anyway, we're currently the hot topic for journalists as every good forum knows, the press is always against your team. Because we are getting more press, we are receiving more insults and downright fabrications, and it gets annoying after a while.

As I've said you can't really judge being a City fan yourself. Personally I noticed a difference as an away fan at the game this year compared to years gone bye and I'm sure I wasn't the only one.

So by that school of thought, you believe that everything that Brum fans say about Villa is actually correct, as they have the perception of you as away fans?

[kurtsimonw]

I think the Man City jealousy.. er.. I mean hatred, has gone a bit far too be honest.

[Oaks]

I would find it sad that a player was so enthusiastic in joining my club you had to offer him £220 a week and all he talked about was money when moving and his love for his former club.

Man City wont be the death of football, but they will contribute to the fall in popularity. I mean the whole England team is pretty much hated and its mainly due to the wages and arrogance of players.

Also when these titles and trophies are won, it wont be Man City winning them, it will be the Arabs. The same thing would have happened at any club they would have chose. The club was/is pretty irrelevant, which would leave me a little emptier.

[leviramsey]

For Villa I don't think Milner is worth £24m, but you're gonna have to pay that or more to get him. We'd probably sell to United for £18-£20m but they don't have $500bn in the bank.

Do you seriously believe that? Wow.

I think that we'd probably not hold out for as much if Utd were bidding.

Football players are, like cars and houses, something where something like first-degree price discrimination can be used. They're unique items where a hard price tag is rarely placed on them (I do have a slight moral problem with this terminology, but the fact is that in this context, the players are chattel... IMO the entire transfer fee system should be scrapped on moral and competitive balance grounds).

Show up to buy a car or a house in a $10,000 suit and driving a Bentley and you're almost sure to not get as good a deal as you would if you show up in a not-outwardly expensive "business casual" outfit and driving a more middle-class car. In the former, the salesman will (likely correctly) deduce that you're willing to pay more and will try to capture as much of the surplus value as he can.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

The thing about Manchester United is that every young player would jump at the chance to play for them. If Citeh go in for Milner, it's not the end of the world for Milner if he decides to stay, because the clubs are at a similar level. Whereas if United came in, he would more than likely push for the move and we wouldn't have much to bargain with. So we would take £20m and be done with it.

[Damocles]

I would find it sad that a player was so enthusiastic in joining my club you had to offer him £220 a week and all he talked about was money when moving and his love for his former club.

Yaya has never mentioned money in any interview that I have seen or heard. Neil Ashton of the NOTW paper printed an article claiming that Yaya Toure's wages could reach £220k if certain bonus conditions were met, and he was promptedly sued by all involved as he literally made it up.

Yaya said after he moved here that he enjoyed his time at Barca and would like to play in the Nou Camp again someday. He showed respect towards one of the biggest clubs in the world and one that City have very close ties with, I have no problem with this at all and neither should any rational person.

Man City wont be the death of football, but they will contribute to the fall in popularity. I mean the whole England team is pretty much hated and its mainly due to the wages and arrogance of players.

Also when these titles and trophies are won, it wont be Man City winning them, it will be the Arabs. The same thing would have happened at any club they would have chose. The club was/is pretty irrelevant, which would leave me a little emptier.

Next time I see Mancini I'll tell him to put Khaldoon and the Sheikh upfront. Just as you played Doug Ellis up front in the European Cup final.

[ChrisVillan]

Why would we have played Ellis up front in the European Cup final?

[iancharlie]

i dont think ellis was even in charge back them - im pretty sure it was bendall - ellis had left the club. villa were run on a tight ship and it was the cumulation of our 8 year surge under saunder that unfortunately he wasnt there to finish off. villa also hardly thrw the money about in the 80s shaw and cowans were both home grown whilst morley and withe may have cost money and spinks the heor had only played about 2 matches before that day! i think what is being said is that it will be the owners and money that bring glory not team spirit, determination, passion and tactics which is sad.