AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I disagree, I think you are overrating players such as Warnock Collins and Dunne MON inherited a much stronger defence and who wouldn't swap the above three rotten apples for Bouma Laursen and Mellberg Absolute no contest O'Neill managed to have one of the best defensive records with those players mentioned, so I'm sure a manager of similar ability would be able to do similar? Although to be fair, I'm not a big fan of the mentioned, although I think Dunne is a good player. A couple things though, Laursen first season started 12 games. Bouma started 23. so it's not like they were integral parts of the defence in 06/07. Going forward though, the talent we have in this team compared to what we did have is just not debatable. Gabby now is so much better than the player he was, of course Bent ..Albrighton and N'Zogbia are better players than anything we had then even if McLeish can't get the best out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I disagree, I think you are overrating players such as Warnock Collins and Dunne MON inherited a much stronger defence and who wouldn't swap the above three rotten apples for Bouma Laursen and Mellberg Absolute no contest O'Neill managed to have one of the best defensive records with those players mentioned, so I'm sure a manager of similar ability would be able to do similar? Although to be fair, I'm not a big fan of the mentioned, although I think Dunne is a good player. A couple things though, Laursen first season started 12 games. Bouma started 23. so it's not like they were integral parts of the defence in 06/07. Going forward though, the talent we have in this team compared to what we did have is just not debatable. Gabby now is so much better than the player he was, of course Bent ..Albrighton and N'Zogbia are better players than anything we had then even if McLeish can't get the best out of them.To be fair, Collins and Warnock are poor defenders and while Dunne can be good, he can also be pretty shit though. I agree with everything else though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDish Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You mean the same Harry Redknapp who got relegated twice? McLeish who has the same points tally that MON managed at this point of the season with Villa in his first year? But unlike MON is not afraid to give the youngsters a chance AND didn't have the problem of losing his two best attacking players, and most certainly doesn't have a massive cheque book to spend. IIRC in this past corresponding window he'd bought Ashley Young & swapped Baros for Carew. Sorry this McLeish hatred is more about his past than anything else from what I can see of it, no matter what anyone says. Not sure I agree with the idea that MON was afraid to give the youngsters a chance in his first season (later it is true, but we have to compare with McLeish's first season). He started Agbonlahor in all but one league games. He also played Luke Moore regularly until Moore **** his shoulder. Gary Cahill started 19 league matches, while Liam Ridgewell started 19 league matches. Steve Davis started 17 matches and Craig Gardner started 11 league matches. Even Isaiah Osbourne played, he started 6 league matches and appeared in 5 more. Old players like Aaron Hughes, Kevin Phillips, Djembax2, Patrik Berger, Lee Hendrie and Milan Baros did not play much or was shown the door. And MON has started that young McLean talent in several matches in Sunderland, so he is not afraid to let the young players play in his first season at a club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You mean the same Harry Redknapp who got relegated twice? McLeish who has the same points tally that MON managed at this point of the season with Villa in his first year? But unlike MON is not afraid to give the youngsters a chance AND didn't have the problem of losing his two best attacking players, and most certainly doesn't have a massive cheque book to spend. IIRC in this past corresponding window he'd bought Ashley Young & swapped Baros for Carew. Sorry this McLeish hatred is more about his past than anything else from what I can see of it, no matter what anyone says. Ashley Young 9m......................CnZogbia.......11m Clutch........straws And Ashley Young hardly looked like a world beater in his first season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDish Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You mean the same Harry Redknapp who got relegated twice? McLeish who has the same points tally that MON managed at this point of the season with Villa in his first year? But unlike MON is not afraid to give the youngsters a chance AND didn't have the problem of losing his two best attacking players, and most certainly doesn't have a massive cheque book to spend. IIRC in this past corresponding window he'd bought Ashley Young & swapped Baros for Carew. Sorry this McLeish hatred is more about his past than anything else from what I can see of it, no matter what anyone says. Not sure I agree with the idea that MON was afraid to give the youngsters a chance in his first season (later it is true, but we have to compare with McLeish's first season). He started Agbonlahor in all but one league games. He also played Luke Moore regularly until Moore **** his shoulder. Gary Cahill started 19 league matches, while Liam Ridgewell started 19 league matches. Steve Davis started 17 matches and Craig Gardner started 11 league matches. Even Isaiah Osbourne played, he started 6 league matches and appeared in 5 more. Old players like Aaron Hughes, Kevin Phillips, Djembax2, Patrik Berger, Lee Hendrie and Milan Baros did not play much or was shown the door. And MON has started that young McLean talent in several matches in Sunderland, so he is not afraid to let the young players play in his first season at a club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You mean the same Harry Redknapp who got relegated twice? McLeish who has the same points tally that MON managed at this point of the season with Villa in his first year? But unlike MON is not afraid to give the youngsters a chance AND didn't have the problem of losing his two best attacking players, and most certainly doesn't have a massive cheque book to spend. IIRC in this past corresponding window he'd bought Ashley Young & swapped Baros for Carew. Sorry this McLeish hatred is more about his past than anything else from what I can see of it, no matter what anyone says. Pretty much every part of this is crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaRoy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Mat Kendrick @MatKendrick McLeish optimistic #avfc will be in a strong enough financial position to invest in quality players this summer. See today's @Sunday_Mercury Eck: "It could be we end up paying massive wages for someone who comes in the summer as long as it fits into that whole (wagebill) package." Something to be optimistic about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Not if McLeish is the one doing the spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaRoy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Not if McLeish is the one doing the spending. Well he's done alright with spending so far bar Hutton. Jenas got injured, not really his fault. Given = Thumbs up N'Zogbia = Thumbs up (seen what he can do, needs to show it more often) Keane = Thumbs up Jenas = Crooked Hutton = Mistake Better good to bad signing ratio than MON so far I'd probably say, others may not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 This sounds to me like McLeish trying to put pressure on Lerner to spend more. It doesn't bode well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 N'zogbia has hardly been worth his fee yet either, and the best our defence has looked all season was with Guzan in goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Not if McLeish is the one doing the spending. Well he's done alright with spending so far bar Hutton. Jenas got injured, not really his fault. Given = Thumbs up N'Zogbia = Thumbs up (seen what he can do, needs to show it more often) Keane = Thumbs up Jenas = Crooked Hutton = Mistake Better good to bad signing ratio than MON so far.He's been hit and miss in the transfer market. To be honest it's not so much that I'm scared of his signings it's that I really don't think he's the man to take us forward and would much rather that money be in the hands of someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 You mean the same Harry Redknapp who got relegated twice? McLeish who has the same points tally that MON managed at this point of the season with Villa in his first year? But unlike MON is not afraid to give the youngsters a chance AND didn't have the problem of losing his two best attacking players, and most certainly doesn't have a massive cheque book to spend. IIRC in this past corresponding window he'd bought Ashley Young & swapped Baros for Carew. Sorry this McLeish hatred is more about his past than anything else from what I can see of it, no matter what anyone says. Pretty much every part of this is crap. so Redknapp didnt get 2 relegations? McLeish doesnt have same points as MON first season? MOn wasnt hesitant about giving youngsters a chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 12, 2012 You mean the same Harry Redknapp who got relegated twice? McLeish who has the same points tally that MON managed at this point of the season with Villa in his first year? But unlike MON is not afraid to give the youngsters a chance AND didn't have the problem of losing his two best attacking players, and most certainly doesn't have a massive cheque book to spend. IIRC in this past corresponding window he'd bought Ashley Young & swapped Baros for Carew. Sorry this McLeish hatred is more about his past than anything else from what I can see of it, no matter what anyone says. Pretty much every part of this is crap. so Redknapp didnt get 2 relegations? McLeish doesnt have same points as MON first season? MOn wasnt hesitant about giving youngsters a chance? First two are fact, third is pure conjecture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 You mean the same Harry Redknapp who got relegated twice? McLeish who has the same points tally that MON managed at this point of the season with Villa in his first year? But unlike MON is not afraid to give the youngsters a chance AND didn't have the problem of losing his two best attacking players, and most certainly doesn't have a massive cheque book to spend. IIRC in this past corresponding window he'd bought Ashley Young & swapped Baros for Carew. Sorry this McLeish hatred is more about his past than anything else from what I can see of it, no matter what anyone says. Not sure I agree with the idea that MON was afraid to give the youngsters a chance in his first season (later it is true, but we have to compare with McLeish's first season). He started Agbonlahor in all but one league games. He also played Luke Moore regularly until Moore **** his shoulder. Gary Cahill started 19 league matches, while Liam Ridgewell started 19 league matches. Steve Davis started 17 matches and Craig Gardner started 11 league matches. Even Isaiah Osbourne played, he started 6 league matches and appeared in 5 more. Old players like Aaron Hughes, Kevin Phillips, Djembax2, Patrik Berger, Lee Hendrie and Milan Baros did not play much or was shown the door. And MON has started that young McLean talent in several matches in Sunderland, so he is not afraid to let the young players play in his first season at a club. Agbonlahor too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 12, 2012 Mat Kendrick @MatKendrick McLeish optimistic #avfc will be in a strong enough financial position to invest in quality players this summer. See today's @Sunday_Mercury Eck: "It could be we end up paying massive wages for someone who comes in the summer as long as it fits into that whole (wagebill) package." Something to be optimistic about? So let me get this right. It comes out in the media that some people are planning protests at the game today and then suddenly Villa are putting stuff like the above out in the media. That isn't an accident of timing. So excuse me if I'm more than a little cynical of both what they are saying and the time they are saying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Not if McLeish is the one doing the spending. Well he's done alright with spending so far bar Hutton. Jenas got injured, not really his fault. Given = Thumbs up N'Zogbia = Thumbs up (seen what he can do, needs to show it more often) Keane = Thumbs up Jenas = Crooked Hutton = Mistake Better good to bad signing ratio than MON so far I'd probably say, others may not. Given - No risk option, already proven. NZogbia - Spunked majority of budget on him. Questionable temperement, Jury still out. Keane - Proven in premier league although getting on. Low risk option. Jenas - Accident waiting to happen, we knew that from day one. Hutton - Woeful. Short term, stop gap, panic buy. Where is the unpolished gem there that shows how astute McLeish is? Where is the focus on the future, the building of a new team? What do these guys bring that we didnt already have? Get Lambert, Poyet or Martinez in and let them build a structure for the next ten years. Not McLeish who is not safe enough in his position to gamble beyond the next 10 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Agree, as we have seen for the past god knows how long, the PR machine goes into full flow when it is needed. Cheaper than facing facts I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 12, 2012 Agree, as we have seen for the past god knows how long, the PR machine goes into full flow when it is needed. Cheaper than facing facts I guess. Sadly a lot of people will believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Yes that is true, which is why the club will continue to do it. Some people believe the club would never lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts