The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[Woodytom]

I expect AVB, like any sane person, would recognise that our defence is poor and that our strength lies in attack.

So you would want a manager to just forget about our weaknesses?

You see, I believe a more talented manager (AVB included FWIW), would try to create a scenario where the whole team was a strength rather single aspects.

Rome wasn't built in a day, nor around Darren Bent :winkold:

[dukes]

If I were the board, I'd snap up AVB after he gets sacked. Although Chelsea play the sort of gutless football many Villa fans are complaining about. Meh, the manager pool is so shallow.

At least we'd be attacking under him. I expect AVB, like any sane person, would recognise that our defence is poor and that our strength lies in attack.

We'd never get him though.

I don't think there's any doubt te McLeish recognises that. I think the problem is that he can't currently do anything about it.

Plus, we've looked much better in attack since the loan signing of Keane.

If McLeish is too defensive at Villa, then i think we have to recognise that as fans we've contributed to that by our reaction to some draws and the defeats. We haven't exactly given him much room to go for all out attack, and with the controversy of his appointment more than any recent manager he has needed not to lose, in some respects more than he's needed to win.

[dudevillaisnice]

If McLeish is too defensive at Villa, then i think we have to recognise that as fans we've contributed to that by our reaction to some draws and the defeats.

What?

We should be happy and accept it instead then? a draw to McLeish is a win for him.

[Keyblade]

If I were the board, I'd snap up AVB after he gets sacked. Although Chelsea play the sort of gutless football many Villa fans are complaining about. Meh, the manager pool is so shallow.

At least we'd be attacking under him. I expect AVB, like any sane person, would recognise that our defence is poor and that our strength lies in attack.

We'd never get him though.

Thing is, AVB doesn't even realize that Chelsea's defence is poor as evidenced by his continuous starting of David Luiz, not to mention the ostracizing of one of his better defenders, Alex. It's one of Chelsea fans' biggest gripes with him.

Chelsea's play also mirror's our own in that they aimlessly pass the ball around with little penetration. Yet people have this preconception about him that he is 'attacking', while of AM the preconception is that he is 'defensive'.

[dukes]

If McLeish is too defensive at Villa, then i think we have to recognise that as fans we've contributed to that by our reaction to some draws and the defeats.

What?

We should be happy and accept it instead then? a draw to McLeish is a win for him.

I haven't said that, but he hasnt been afforded time.

[pacbuddies]

McLeish has shown balls of steel to take over at a club with no real investment (considering where he came from).

Yep, it takes real balls of steel to be paid several £mllion's per year to take a job. I can't see many of us wanting to earn such a pittance.

[Daweii]

A strong defense is the backbone for a strong side though you need to have a good attack as well.. I think Villa have a good attack most of the games this season we'd have won if our defense was up to scratch. Seriously our defense is the difference between us sitting in 5th and 6th where Newcastle dwell and 13th where we are currently..

[Mantis]

I expect AVB, like any sane person, would recognise that our defence is poor and that our strength lies in attack.

So you would want a manager to just forget about our weaknesses?

You see, I believe a more talented manager (AVB included FWIW), would try to create a scenario where the whole team was a strength rather single aspects.

Rome wasn't built in a day, nor around Darren Bent :winkold:

No, I'm just asking for the manager to play to our strengths.

[Woodytom]

I expect AVB, like any sane person, would recognise that our defence is poor and that our strength lies in attack.

So you would want a manager to just forget about our weaknesses?

You see, I believe a more talented manager (AVB included FWIW), would try to create a scenario where the whole team was a strength rather single aspects.

Rome wasn't built in a day, nor around Darren Bent :winkold:

No, I'm just asking for the manager to play to our strengths.

So what are our strengths and what brings you to the conclusion that they are our strengths?

[Mantis]

I expect AVB, like any sane person, would recognise that our defence is poor and that our strength lies in attack.

So you would want a manager to just forget about our weaknesses?

You see, I believe a more talented manager (AVB included FWIW), would try to create a scenario where the whole team was a strength rather single aspects.

Rome wasn't built in a day, nor around Darren Bent :winkold:

No, I'm just asking for the manager to play to our strengths.

So what are our strengths and what brings you to the conclusion that they are our strengths?

I think you already know the answer to both questions but I'll bite anyway.

Our strength is in attack. Bent, Agbonlahor, Keane (temporarily), Ireland and N'Zogbia are all very good attacking players. There's no question about that. Our midfield and defence (particularly the latter) are nowhere near that standard. Look at our last home win against Norwich for example. We were very attacking in that game and reaped the rewards with a win. Games in which we've lined up defensively have often resulted in a defeat because of our poor defence.

You already know all this so I don't know why you're asking. You don't have to defend every single bit of criticism that is leveled at McLeish.

[bickster]

I expect AVB, like any sane person, would recognise that our defence is poor and that our strength lies in attack.

So you would want a manager to just forget about our weaknesses?

You see, I believe a more talented manager (AVB included FWIW), would try to create a scenario where the whole team was a strength rather single aspects.

Rome wasn't built in a day, nor around Darren Bent :winkold:

No, I'm just asking for the manager to play to our strengths.

He does, he just can't do much about our weaknesses until we lose the high wage earners this summer. We actually need an entirely new defence.

[legov]

If I were the board, I'd snap up AVB after he gets sacked. Although Chelsea play the sort of gutless football many Villa fans are complaining about. Meh, the manager pool is so shallow.

At least we'd be attacking under him. I expect AVB, like any sane person, would recognise that our defence is poor and that our strength lies in attack.

We'd never get him though.

Thing is, AVB doesn't even realize that Chelsea's defence is poor as evidenced by his continuous starting of David Luiz, not to mention the ostracizing of one of his better defenders, Alex. It's one of Chelsea fans' biggest gripes with him.

Chelsea's play also mirror's our own in that they aimlessly pass the ball around with little penetration. Yet people have this preconception about him that he is 'attacking', while of AM the preconception is that he is 'defensive'.

You're right, all of us would make better managers than AVB

Jokes aside, I agree with you.

[Mantis]

I expect AVB, like any sane person, would recognise that our defence is poor and that our strength lies in attack.

So you would want a manager to just forget about our weaknesses?

You see, I believe a more talented manager (AVB included FWIW), would try to create a scenario where the whole team was a strength rather single aspects.

Rome wasn't built in a day, nor around Darren Bent :winkold:

No, I'm just asking for the manager to play to our strengths.

He does, he just can't do much about our weaknesses until we lose the high wage earners this summer. We actually need an entirely new defence.

No he doesn't. :|

I know he can't do much about the defence. I never denied this.

[CI]

McLeishs 25th PL game for us today

MONs 25th game for us :

Newcastle 3-1 Villa (we were 2 down after 7 mins)

Sorensen

Bardsley Cahill Mellberg Bouma

Young Petrov McCann Barry

Agbonlahor Carew

IMO MON had just as strong a team and after this game had only 29pts

Not a lot of difference really

[Daweii]

McLeishs 25th PL game for us today

MONs 25th game for us :

Newcastle 3-1 Villa (we were 2 down after 7 mins)

Sorensen

Bardsley Cahill Mellberg Bouma

Young Petrov McCann Barry

Agbonlahor Carew

IMO MON had just as strong a team and after this game had only 29pts

Not a lot of difference really

Many of us forget that.. I think Top 6 football for 3 seasons spoiled us big time. We need to dial back expectations a bit as even when MON arrived he was pretty shit.. He got better though to the point that when he walked out on us it was frustrating but at the same time genuinely gutting.

[Woodytom]

I expect AVB, like any sane person, would recognise that our defence is poor and that our strength lies in attack.

So you would want a manager to just forget about our weaknesses?

You see, I believe a more talented manager (AVB included FWIW), would try to create a scenario where the whole team was a strength rather single aspects.

Rome wasn't built in a day, nor around Darren Bent :winkold:

No, I'm just asking for the manager to play to our strengths.

So what are our strengths and what brings you to the conclusion that they are our strengths?

I think you already know the answer to both questions but I'll bite anyway.

Our strength is in attack. Bent, Agbonlahor, Keane (temporarily), Ireland and N'Zogbia are all very good attacking players. There's no question about that. Our midfield and defence (particularly the latter) are nowhere near that standard. Look at our last home win against Norwich for example. We were very attacking in that game and reaped the rewards with a win. Games in which we've lined up defensively have often resulted in a defeat because of our poor defence.

You already know all this so I don't know why you're asking. You don't have to defend every single bit of criticism that is leveled at McLeish.

Think you have got the wrong end of the stick? I don't know our strength. And tbh, I don't think you do. To just spout out 5 players and say ther good attacking players doesnt really explain why you think attack is our strength. You highlight the Norwich game - not exactly a comfortable win that you could take the tactics from and focus a whole season on.

It really isnt about 5 players. Is about a unit of 11 players that work well together. You cant just slam Ireland, Gabby, Bent, Nzog and Keane in team and say 'go and attack' and everything will be hunky dorey. If playing to 5 players strength means that your not playing to the other 6's strength then your not playing to the teams strength.

[Mantis]

I expect AVB, like any sane person, would recognise that our defence is poor and that our strength lies in attack.

So you would want a manager to just forget about our weaknesses?

You see, I believe a more talented manager (AVB included FWIW), would try to create a scenario where the whole team was a strength rather single aspects.

Rome wasn't built in a day, nor around Darren Bent :winkold:

No, I'm just asking for the manager to play to our strengths.

So what are our strengths and what brings you to the conclusion that they are our strengths?

I think you already know the answer to both questions but I'll bite anyway.

Our strength is in attack. Bent, Agbonlahor, Keane (temporarily), Ireland and N'Zogbia are all very good attacking players. There's no question about that. Our midfield and defence (particularly the latter) are nowhere near that standard. Look at our last home win against Norwich for example. We were very attacking in that game and reaped the rewards with a win. Games in which we've lined up defensively have often resulted in a defeat because of our poor defence.

You already know all this so I don't know why you're asking. You don't have to defend every single bit of criticism that is leveled at McLeish.

Think you have got the wrong end of the stick? I don't know our strength. And tbh, I don't think you do. To just spout out 5 players and say ther good attacking players doesnt really explain why you think attack is our strength. You highlight the Norwich game - not exactly a comfortable win that you could take the tactics from and focus a whole season on.

It really isnt about 5 players. Is about a unit of 11 players that work well together. You cant just slam Ireland, Gabby, Bent, Nzog and Keane in team and say 'go and attack' and everything will be hunky dorey. If playing to 5 players strength means that your not playing to the other 6's strength then your not playing to the teams strength.

If our strength isn't in attack then where is it?

I think you misinterpreted my post. I never said we should just stick those players on the field and tell them to attack, nor did I say the win against Norwich was comfortable. What I was doing was highlighting that when we do attack with some of these players and have a go we don't do too badly.

[DeepDish]

You mean the same Harry Redknapp who got relegated twice?

McLeish who has the same points tally that MON managed at this point of the season with Villa in his first year?

But unlike MON is not afraid to give the youngsters a chance AND didn't have the problem of losing his two best attacking players, and most certainly doesn't have a massive cheque book to spend. IIRC in this past corresponding window he'd bought Ashley Young & swapped Baros for Carew.

Sorry this McLeish hatred is more about his past than anything else from what I can see of it, no matter what anyone says.

Not sure I agree with the idea that MON was afraid to give the youngsters a chance in his first season (later it is true, but we have to compare with McLeish's first season).

He started Agbonlahor in all but one league games. He also played Luke Moore regularly until Moore **** his shoulder.

Gary Cahill started 19 league matches, while Liam Ridgewell started 19 league matches. Steve Davis started 17 matches and Craig Gardner started 11 league matches. Even Isaiah Osbourne played, he started 6 league matches and appeared in 5 more.

Old players like Aaron Hughes, Kevin Phillips, Djembax2, Patrik Berger, Lee Hendrie and Milan Baros did not play much or was shown the door.

And MON has started that young McLean talent in several matches in Sunderland, so he is not afraid to let the young players play in his first season at a club.

Bruce brought McLean through, it's not like mon has gone in and unearthed a gem!

Yes, but we were not discussing who bought the players. I answered the point that MON did not give the youn players a chance. Bruce did not give McLean any chances, MON did. MON also give the young players at Aston Villa their chance in the first season, meaning that he was not worse that McLeish with regards to that question.

I was only objecting to JulieB's point regarding that McLeish give the young players a chance and that MON did not do that. It is not correct when you compare the two manager's first season.

[Keyblade]

You mean the same Harry Redknapp who got relegated twice?

McLeish who has the same points tally that MON managed at this point of the season with Villa in his first year?

But unlike MON is not afraid to give the youngsters a chance AND didn't have the problem of losing his two best attacking players, and most certainly doesn't have a massive cheque book to spend. IIRC in this past corresponding window he'd bought Ashley Young & swapped Baros for Carew.

Sorry this McLeish hatred is more about his past than anything else from what I can see of it, no matter what anyone says.

Not sure I agree with the idea that MON was afraid to give the youngsters a chance in his first season (later it is true, but we have to compare with McLeish's first season).

He started Agbonlahor in all but one league games. He also played Luke Moore regularly until Moore **** his shoulder.

Gary Cahill started 19 league matches, while Liam Ridgewell started 19 league matches. Steve Davis started 17 matches and Craig Gardner started 11 league matches. Even Isaiah Osbourne played, he started 6 league matches and appeared in 5 more.

Old players like Aaron Hughes, Kevin Phillips, Djembax2, Patrik Berger, Lee Hendrie and Milan Baros did not play much or was shown the door.

And MON has started that young McLean talent in several matches in Sunderland, so he is not afraid to let the young players play in his first season at a club.

Bruce brought McLean through, it's not like mon has gone in and unearthed a gem!

Yes, but we were not discussing who bought the players. I answered the point that MON did not give the youn players a chance. Bruce did not give McLean any chances, MON did. MON also give the young players at Aston Villa their chance in the first season, meaning that he was not worse that McLeish with regards to that question.

I was only objecting to JulieB's point regarding that McLeish give the young players a chance and that MON did not do that. It is not correct when you compare the two manager's first season.

It's not exactly as if AM's hand was forced when he started 19 y/o Gardner at Wolves. Or have Delph a run of 7 or so starts in a row at the start of the season for example. Whereas I don't think MON ever took those kind of risks with the youngsters.

[briny_ear]

McLeishs 25th PL game for us today

MONs 25th game for us :

Newcastle 3-1 Villa (we were 2 down after 7 mins)

Sorensen

Bardsley Cahill Mellberg Bouma

Young Petrov McCann Barry

Agbonlahor Carew

IMO MON had just as strong a team and after this game had only 29pts

Not a lot of difference really

It will be interesting to see if people go on posting these comparative statistics as the season goes on.

After the Newcastle game, Villa's results for the rest of the 2006-7 season were WLDLDDWDWDWWD. 21 points from 13 games.

I'd like to think McLeish could do the same or better for us this season but the signs don't look great at present.

I suspect as soon as the comparison with MON's first season gets less and less favourable for McLeish, we will see fewer of these posts reminding us of the relative performances. :winkold: