villalad21 Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, PaulC said: Its an absolute travesty that Lewandowski didnt win it. Lewandowski won the best striker award. Ballon'dor isn't about who is the best striker. It's about who is the best overall footballer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 1 minute ago, villalad21 said: Lewandowski won the best striker award. Ballon'dor isn't about who is the best striker. It's about who is the best overall footballer. Lewandowski is better than PSGs messi There's also the fact that in 2020 Lewandowski was the world's best footballer full stop A lot of wanting him to win this year as justice for corona robbing him last year (as well as him still being damn good) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Lewandowski won the best striker award. Ballon'dor isn't about who is the best striker. It's about who is the best overall footballer. Not really it's basically who had the best season. Or the best year. Either way it's Messi. Even if it was overall footballer I'm not sure its Messi anymore at this current time Edited November 30, 2021 by rodders0223 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, a m ole said: Raheem Sterling was 15th It’s about who was the best overall footballer? Because… Edited November 30, 2021 by a m ole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, a m ole said: It’s about who was the best overall footballer? Because… Got those tap ins during the euros His international form statistically is really good, just don't actually watch him play and you'll think he's great 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 28 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Lewandowski is better than PSGs messi There's also the fact that in 2020 Lewandowski was the world's best footballer full stop A lot of wanting him to win this year as justice for corona robbing him last year (as well as him still being damn good) Them not doing the award last year was just odd. Why couldn’t they just give the award without the ceremony? Of all the things that kept going through the pandemic that would be a piece of piss. The cynic in my thinks it’s because they didn’t want to give it to Lewandowski. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 51 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said: When was the last time a player not based in Europe won it? Until about 10 years ago the Ballon Dor was for European player of the year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, Genie said: Them not doing the award last year was just odd. Why couldn’t they just give the award without the ceremony? Of all the things that kept going through the pandemic that would be a piece of piss. The cynic in my thinks it’s because they didn’t want to give it to Lewandowski. Last part was because they didnt want to not give it to Messi or Ronaldo. Was some social media mockery when Modric won it and they didnt want the plastic fans complaining again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXD Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 1 hour ago, villalad21 said: Lewa is a better goalscorer but Messi is a better footballer. Messi can do things with the ball Lewa can only dream of. Not sure how anyone can argue that. This isn't the golden boot price. It's the best footballer award. Lewa's numbers are impressive but I don't think Messi winning it by any means is unjust. So as long as Messi plays, he deserves to win no matter what. Based on your logic, the better footballer should always win and Messi will always be the better footballer, regardless of form. Totally disagree btw, Messi did well in the 20/21 season, but has been mediocre since his move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 It is difficult to decide whether Messi had a particularly good season, last time out, because Barce were poor by their own standards, but it seems likely that he got the award as a valedictory honour for his services to the European game. As he gets older, it is an interesting question as to what his role will be and what sort of contribution he will make. The evidence at PSG seems to be that he will notch up a lot more assists than goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, AXD said: So as long as Messi plays, he deserves to win no matter what. Based on your logic, the better footballer should always win and Messi will always be the better footballer, regardless of form. Totally disagree btw, Messi did well in the 20/21 season, but has been mediocre since his move. No. But he still had a great season last year in a poor side. On top of that he won the Copa America so a well deserved Ballon D'Or imo. Lewandowski get so many big chances created for him in an unbelievable team, and in a weak league from a defensive point of view. Scoring a goal doesn't automatically mean you are playing well. But this is modern football fans for you, just looking at the numbers. I don't subscribe to that and never will. I'm old school and use the eye test when judging players. Leo Messi is so much more than assist and goals, and is a superior footballer in every way to Lewandowski. That isn't a knock on Lewandowski, Messi is just a freak of nature. Greatest footballer of all time and I'm happy he won. Edited November 30, 2021 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) Isn't the Balloon D'oor just a load of old nothing bollox and always has been a bent nothing award crap to boot tosh bollox. Ps. Paul McGrath never won it so it's crap. Edited November 30, 2021 by Phil Silvers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, villalad21 said: No. But he still had a great season last year in a poor side. On top of that he won the Copa America so a well deserved Ballon D'Or imo. Lewandowski get so many big chances created for him in an unbelievable team, and in a weak league from a defensive point of view. Scoring a goal doesn't automatically mean you are playing well. But this is modern football fans for you, just looking at the numbers. I don't subscribe to that and never will. I'm old school and use the eye test when judging players. Leo Messi is so much more than assist and goals, and is a superior footballer in every way to Lewandowski. That isn't a knock on Lewandowski, Messi is just a freak of nature. Greatest footballer of all time and I'm happy he won. Yes he scored goals against crap opposition in La Liga but they still finished third, he didn't perform in the big games in the champions league. Dont follow the copa america. Its fixed for him to win 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 39 minutes ago, Genie said: Well, that's pretty **** open and shut, isn't it? Fair paly to MEssi for coming out and acknowleding Lewa in his speech and saying he deserves it for last year though, it's too bloody late now, but they should have awarded it to him last night instead of making up this trophy nobody cares about as a consolation prize. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Genie said: So Messi is outperforming him in pretty much every single stat except goals. Bare in mind Lewandowski is playing in a better team and is a pure 9. Just can't see how it is controversial that Messi won it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 47 minutes ago, PaulC said: Yes he scored goals against crap opposition in La Liga but they still finished third, he didn't perform in the big games in the champions league. Dont follow the copa america. Its fixed for him to win Can you not see that list of stats above, that is a pretty conclusive body of evidence as to why he might have won for his football rather than simply being a fix, even if you don't agree with the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) Some of the stats are designed to make it look like an obvious choice though, shots on target? That means his conversion rate is lower. Accurate passes? How do Barcelona play vs Bayern? What position are they playing in? MOTM? Yeah because Barca are shite. Dribbles completed? That’s what Messi does. Is there an aerial duals stat we can see for example? Not saying one way or the other, but it’s pretty misleading. Edited November 30, 2021 by a m ole 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: Can you not see that list of stats above, that is a pretty conclusive body of evidence as to why he might have won for his football rather than simply being a fix, even if you don't agree with the outcome. I see the stats and they are relevant and I am a great admirer of Messi but still doesnt seem right he won it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXD Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, villalad21 said: So Messi is outperforming him in pretty much every single stat except goals. Bare in mind Lewandowski is playing in a better team and is a pure 9. Just can't see how it is controversial that Messi won it. Those stats are impressive, no way around it. Messi is a very good player. However, this is looking at sports like an American, just go by the numbers. There is more to it. A few things to keep in mind 1) Messi is a 10, the other two are 9s, so their position on the field is different as is their role. A 9 will more often be on the end of an attack. Other way round, lower on the pitch you are more involved in the build-up (passing, assists,...). For some stats, this makes Messi more impressive, others not so much (eg: I wouldn't be surprised if Mings has better stats on 'tackles' & 'recovery' than all three, because he plays in defence). Another thing invisible in stats is runs: what stat did El Ghazi get for his run against Brighton, creating space for Watkins? (other than distance covered). A 9 has to make runs to allow wingers/10s to come into play and to create space. Both Lewa and Benzema do that more often, as it's their role. 2) Messi played for Barcelona, a possession based team. Bayern and Real play more direct football, so less passing. Players for Barca often decide to pass even when they have a chance, just because some team mate could have a better chance. 3) More games played by Messi, in a way impressive, but that puts some other stats in perspective (eg Lewa has more shots on target per game) 4) Those bottom five in blue are related to team results, it's a lot harder to be man of the match in a good team than in an average team (eg Grealish), if your team mates score loads as well your goals/assists won't win matches or points on their own. 5) I always wonder what the metric is for a 'big' chance. What constitutes the difference between a 'chance' and a 'big chance' To be clear, I don't begrudge Messi the win. he is the best player out there. But he didn't have his best season and wasn't a standout player. Maybe he set the bar very high for himself, that's why people question this win. Edit: just seen @a m ole post above. Indeed where are the physical stats: headers won, duels won, distance covered, number of sprints,... ? Edited November 30, 2021 by AXD Update 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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