Ciaran Clark

[theunderstudy]

You misinterpreted my comments. He's got strong Irish connections, especiially his grandma, but the lad was born and raised in England, and taught football in England. I'm not saying he shouldn't choose Ireland, but he's grown up here and he hasn't plied his trade in Irish football (unlike McGrath)

Kilbane is an interesting one, but again, its his choice. I could turn round and stick two fingers up to england in the (very very very unlikely) event of a call-up, as despite being born in Solihull I have more Scottish blood than English! (Due to my Irish portion on both sides, more present on my ma's side) but it doesn't mean I would purely because of my lineage.

Its what suits him and if he chooses Ireland, good luck to him. Just surprised they only want him now he's the next big thing in defensive terms at Villa... Even though he's played U-18s, ___-19s U-20s and captained em all... For England.

[BOF]

Plenty do it. Our own Shane Lowry followed a similar path through the Irish under age system then declared for the Aussie national team. Which senior team you represent tends to have little to do with where you're from and more to do with how good you see yourself and how high up you can get. I see Adam Barton has just pulled a similar trick on N.I. but poor old N.I. get fleeced not only by the normal routes but by the very questionable Good Friday agreement rule whereby ROI can nick NI players with no familial ties but NI can't nick in the opposite direction.

[theunderstudy]

Ouch. Reallly? NI been talen for a ride there! Can't UEFA/ FIFA do anything?

[BOF]

Ouch. Reallly? NI been talen for a ride there! Can't UEFA/ FIFA do anything?

It's unique and vehhh political. It's based in law around the (funnily enough) Good Friday agreement re- nationality and the like, so I don't think UEFA would be able to do much without breaking European law but yes absolutely NI get fleeced. I wouldn't mind if it worked both ways but for it to be one-way is IMO wrong even if I am on the side of the beneficiary.

[theunderstudy]

That's true. I didn't know of that particular subsection of the GF agreement. And yeah I suppose due to the sensitivity needed around the Ireland/NI situation they can't really do anything!

[CrackpotForeigner]

by the very questionable Good Friday agreement

Fwoar, controversial stuff there BOF.

( whaddaya mean "taken out of context"? )

[BOF]

whaddaya mean "taken out of context"?

[Jon]

I would guess he might consider himself good enough to pplay for England soon enough, so might wait for that call.

I guess it also depends upon whether he sees himself as English or not.

He's got no rush to decide though ....

[SwanVsDalton]

Ouch. Reallly? NI been talen for a ride there! Can't UEFA/ FIFA do anything?

It's unique and vehhh political. It's based in law around the (funnily enough) Good Friday agreement re- nationality and the like, so I don't think UEFA would be able to do much without breaking European law but yes absolutely NI get fleeced. I wouldn't mind if it worked both ways but for it to be one-way is IMO wrong even if I am on the side of the beneficiary.

I don't want to skew too far off topic but...

FIFA made just that proposal to both the FAI and IFA three years ago (around the Darron Gibson furore) - both associations could pick players from both territories. The FAI accepted it, the IFA rejected it. Like you I think the system's a little unfair, despite benefiting as an ROI fan, but the IFA's refusal to play ball has put them in this situation. So no sympathy for them...

As for Ciaran Clark, it's up to the lad and whatever he decided good luck to him. I was surprised to see both his parents are Irish (father Scottish born but to Irish parents) so he has stronger links than being reported in most places. Still at this point, being involved with Englerland, that may be where he sees his future. How close would be to starting for the U-21's? Would I be right in saying he's behind Phil Jones, Michael Mancienne, Martin Kelly and Chris Smalling?

[BOF]

FIFA made just that proposal to both the FAI and IFA three years ago (around the Darron Gibson furore) - both associations could pick players from both territories. The FAI accepted it, the IFA rejected it. Like you I think the system's a little unfair, despite benefiting as an ROI fan, but the IFA's refusal to play ball has put them in this situation. So no sympathy for them...

Interesting. I hadn't heard that. Have you a link to anything online about it?

[SwanVsDalton]

It was in the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) recent ruling on the case the IFA took against the FAI on player eligibility (specifically on Danierl Kearns):

http://www.tas-cas.org/d2wfiles/document/4385/5048/0/Award%202071.pdf

P.19, about half way down:

"• On 5 November 2007, FIFA informed the IFA that the FAI did not accept its proposal of 7 March 2007. FIFA also came to the conclusion that the applicable regulations did not provide for avoidance of the “one-way situation” described in its letter dated 7 March 2007. Hence and in order to find an amicable solution to the Irish eligibility issue, the FIFA Legal Committee made a “new proposal” and invited the IFA as well as the FAI to express its position on the following “suggested approach”: “(…) every player born on the territory of Northern Ireland, holding the UK nationality and being entitled to a passport of the Republic of Ireland or born on the territory of the Republic of Ireland and holding the Irish nationality could either play for the [FAI] or the [iFA], under the condition that all other relevant prerequisites pertaining to player’s eligibility for a specific Association team are fulfilled”.

• On 8 November 2007, the IFA expressed its disagreement with the proposal of the FIFA Legal Committee, which was however accepted by the FAI on 20 November 2007."

As an aside - the ruling in itself is an absolute embarrassment for the IFA, who took an unwinnable, poorly thought out, case to the highest sport court in the land. Worth reading if you have the time.

[YLN]

It's unique and vehhh political. It's based in law around the (funnily enough) Good Friday agreement re- nationality and the like

You mean the Croke Park agreement

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

He's English.

[BOF]

Cheers for that Swan.

[wiganvillain]

As for Ciaran Clark, it's up to the lad and whatever he decided good luck to him. I was surprised to see both his parents are Irish (father Scottish born

No question then he's a Jock and my e-mail has been sent off to the SFA notifying them of this, we need as many good players as we can get

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

As for Ciaran Clark, it's up to the lad and whatever he decided good luck to him. I was surprised to see both his parents are Irish (father Scottish born

No question then he's a Jock and my e-mail has been sent off to the SFA notifying them of this, we need as many good players as we can get

Yep. Would be good to add to the list that stands currently at 0.

[Enda]

Off-topic again here but BOF I don't think the current scenario is all that unfair on the North. Irish people are Irish; British people are British; it just happens that there's a mix of them in the North. So the Good Friday Agreement said "Right, if you want to be British you can have a British passport and if you want to be Irish you can have an Irish passport." Fair compromise, democratically endorsed. Nordies who feel Irish (and who object to claims that they're British) can play for ROI. Nordies who feel British (and who object to claims that they're Irish) can play for NI. I think that's a fairer outcome, particularly from the unionist stand-point, than the rugby scenario where nordie Brits can only play for Ireland.

[briny_ear]

It was in the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) recent ruling on the case the IFA took against the FAI on player eligibility (specifically on Danierl Kearns):

http://www.tas-cas.org/d2wfiles/document/4385/5048/0/Award%202071.pdf

P.19, about half way down:

"• On 5 November 2007, FIFA informed the IFA that the FAI did not accept its proposal of 7 March 2007. FIFA also came to the conclusion that the applicable regulations did not provide for avoidance of the “one-way situation” described in its letter dated 7 March 2007. Hence and in order to find an amicable solution to the Irish eligibility issue, the FIFA Legal Committee made a “new proposal” and invited the IFA as well as the FAI to express its position on the following “suggested approach”: “(…) every player born on the territory of Northern Ireland, holding the UK nationality and being entitled to a passport of the Republic of Ireland or born on the territory of the Republic of Ireland and holding the Irish nationality could either play for the [FAI] or the [iFA], under the condition that all other relevant prerequisites pertaining to player’s eligibility for a specific Association team are fulfilled”.

• On 8 November 2007, the IFA expressed its disagreement with the proposal of the FIFA Legal Committee, which was however accepted by the FAI on 20 November 2007."

As an aside - the ruling in itself is an absolute embarrassment for the IFA, who took an unwinnable, poorly thought out, case to the highest sport court in the land. Worth reading if you have the time.

Apologies - I know this is going massively off topic but I don't understand why the IFA (who are the Northern Ireland Association - right?) would reject this proposal when it appears to readjust things in their favour?

[Enda]

It was in the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) recent ruling on the case the IFA took against the FAI on player eligibility (specifically on Danierl Kearns):

http://www.tas-cas.org/d2wfiles/document/4385/5048/0/Award%202071.pdf

P.19, about half way down:

"• On 5 November 2007, FIFA informed the IFA that the FAI did not accept its proposal of 7 March 2007. FIFA also came to the conclusion that the applicable regulations did not provide for avoidance of the “one-way situation” described in its letter dated 7 March 2007. Hence and in order to find an amicable solution to the Irish eligibility issue, the FIFA Legal Committee made a “new proposal” and invited the IFA as well as the FAI to express its position on the following “suggested approach”: “(…) every player born on the territory of Northern Ireland, holding the UK nationality and being entitled to a passport of the Republic of Ireland or born on the territory of the Republic of Ireland and holding the Irish nationality could either play for the [FAI] or the [iFA], under the condition that all other relevant prerequisites pertaining to player’s eligibility for a specific Association team are fulfilled”.

• On 8 November 2007, the IFA expressed its disagreement with the proposal of the FIFA Legal Committee, which was however accepted by the FAI on 20 November 2007."

As an aside - the ruling in itself is an absolute embarrassment for the IFA, who took an unwinnable, poorly thought out, case to the highest sport court in the land. Worth reading if you have the time.

Apologies - I know this is going massively off topic but I don't understand why the IFA (who are the Northern Ireland Association - right?) would reject this proposal when it appears to readjust things in their favour?

I imagine they realised that it a compromise with no benefit to them. About 50% of the population of the North feel Irish so might want to switch allegiances. FIFA offered the compromise that people from the south could play up there too. But approximately 0% of the south feel British so nobody would take the offer up.

[SwanVsDalton]

Indeed but the IFA would still be able to pick up more players ie those who won't get capped by ROI but would have a chance with NI. Given their small playing resources it's a surprise they didn't take it up. I can only imagine they thought they would win their preposterous eligibility case and lock all NI born players in for NI.

Anyone back on topic...Ciaran Clark. I asked a bit earlier if anyone knew where he is in the pecking order for the England U-21's? Is he behind Smalling, Jones, Kelly and Mancienne? Or would he expect to be ahead of these guys? Particularly since he's older than Smalling, Jones and Kelly.