SwanVsDalton

Sherwood had an absolute shocker - we just needed a couple of changes to shore up a midfield that was getting completely overrun, and getting no help from Grealish, Sinclair and Ayew. Richardson, Veretout even Clark would have been a massive help. But no - we just sit like lemons and let Leicester take the game away from us. The players deserve scrutiny for being so completely chicken headed in the second half - Sanchez and Westwood and particularly lost it completely. But they were getting shellacked by Leicester and desperately needed a third midfielder in there. I mean, this is not feckin hard. Complete balls from the manager.

Surprised no one has pointed out Dunne appeared in two pre-season games - apparently after the FAI inflicted the injury by tying Richard to a chair and beating him round the legs with ball hammers...

Honest player but probably one of the most brainless ever to have the luck to play Premier ball. A singularly unintelligent defender, with zero reading of the game. Lost count of the many times he went sprawling in front of an opposition attacker, often sliding metres away from play costing a goal, when he simply could've kept his feet and defended properly. G'luck all the same.

While I agree there's no excuses anyway, half the team are likely carrying significant knocks. If Dunne plays he can't be more than 65-70% fit.

That was jammy in fairness. Our defence has been poor but no denying we've rarely got the rub back there either. Come on lads, we're playing well here.

That was jammy in fairness. Our defence has been poor but no denying we've rarely got the rub back there either. Come on lads, we're playing well here.

Warnock booing is embarrassing. Seriously, there's just no need to boo a player for being shit. Boo the manager for picking him.

As much as he's rubbish (as he really has been), the Warnock booing is shameful.

He wasn't great today to be honest. Very poor anticipation for first pen and caught out of position on a few occasions. This brings me back to the manager though - our defenders arn't great but for them all to be consistently error prone points to chronic problems with organisation.

He dug Cuellar, Warnock and Hutton out of trouble on more than a few occasions - awful challenge, classic Dunne but fair's fair.

FFS put the ball in the box. For once we get men forward, including Dunne, on the counter and N'Zog runs the ball out of play.

Awful, awful, awful. James Collins has to be dropped at this point. He's having a truly awful season and, unlike Dunne, it isn't a dip in form - he's by a distance the most unintelligent footballer I've seen in the top flight. Always travelling/sliding/diving for the ball and once again it cost us cheap goals. Heskey too - what a waste of time. Most of all McLeish needs to take the kids gloves off and get real with the squad and with himself. Spurs are a fine team but our tactics and attitude were totally wrong for tonight. Dreadful.

But that's what I'm saying - you're disingenuously suggesting he played one game. He didn't. He played eight domestically, in Europe and internationally. I'm sure you'll laugh that off, but I'm asserting that over those games he did well and basing my opinions on those games. Evidence. Actually I think that's exactly what you're doing. I've only commented on the games he HAS played in. Fine, no problem with that. Except on the last part - why do you think that? I asked previously and you ignored it. I'd say it's an opinion held by a minority, although I'm happy for you to prove me wrong. Don't want you to, haven't asked you to - no need to be defensive. See above on the one game thing. But I am basing my opinion on what I've seen. Where did I claim mine holds more factual basis? I haven't, not once. Just asserted my opinion based on what I've seen of the goalkeeper. I've asserted his ability remains sharp, explained why, you've said otherwise and I've asked why...so far as I can tell your answer is limited to he didn't play much last season and you don't fancy him much. As I've said before, fair enough but I think it's a baffling assertion to make given his solid performances to date (including those he made last year). No I'm not. I'm going on the fact that I've been watching Given closely throughout his career and I've seen no sign in the last season or two that his ability is in anyway diminished. You say you have, I ask why and you say he hasn't played much - you see where I'm going here? My opinion, based on games he's played. Your opinion appears based more on the games he hasn't played. Look as you've said, you don't really rate him which is fine but I've asked repeatedly for you to offer a more detailed view on why he's losing ability and you haven't. You've just gotten defensive. He only played eight times last year. Not a great number. But he seemed plenty able in those games. So somebody tell me - how can the conclusion he's losing ability be made? Who talked about him being on his way out a season ago and why? When has his form dipped really badly? What part of his game has really deteriorated from ten years ago?

Who and how? Given's been pretty much consistent to my mind - what could be considered small dips in form are easily attributable to injury. To suggest his form or ability is on the slide is guesswork - he played more than once last season, and every time he was solid and better. But you'd rather ignore when he did play and speculate on a lessening on form based on - what? I'm not really sure. I'm basing my opinion on what I've seen in the last year and before. You appear to be guessing - not necessarily a bad thing (maybe you have a feeling in your water) but I've seen no evidence of a drop in ability and it's an opinion borne out, I believe, by the people who've watched him play regularly for ROI or sporadically for Man City. As for Foster, I think Given's a better keeper. If you disagree that's fine, but I find it baffling people are ignoring evidence to the contrary to insist his ability is on the wane based on a hunch.

Sure - so weigh it up on other factors. In ability every time Given has appeared in the last few years he's been the same quality, whether that was for Man City or Ireland. Fans of those sides will tell you as much. There appears no real drop off in his ability. The fitness fears are more real, but they're still built more on speculation. For me Given's the best keeper we could get, so worth the risk. People will feel differently - or about Foster or whoever - but I don't think anyone has been consistently as good as Shay. Like I said - I can't help but feel his spell on the bench has made everyone forget just how good he is but I'm confident he'll prove his ability at VP.