SwanVsDalton

Sherwood had an absolute shocker - we just needed a couple of changes to shore up a midfield that was getting completely overrun, and getting no help from Grealish, Sinclair and Ayew. Richardson, Veretout even Clark would have been a massive help. But no - we just sit like lemons and let Leicester take the game away from us. The players deserve scrutiny for being so completely chicken headed in the second half - Sanchez and Westwood and particularly lost it completely. But they were getting shellacked by Leicester and desperately needed a third midfielder in there. I mean, this is not feckin hard. Complete balls from the manager.

Surprised no one has pointed out Dunne appeared in two pre-season games - apparently after the FAI inflicted the injury by tying Richard to a chair and beating him round the legs with ball hammers...

Honest player but probably one of the most brainless ever to have the luck to play Premier ball. A singularly unintelligent defender, with zero reading of the game. Lost count of the many times he went sprawling in front of an opposition attacker, often sliding metres away from play costing a goal, when he simply could've kept his feet and defended properly. G'luck all the same.

While I agree there's no excuses anyway, half the team are likely carrying significant knocks. If Dunne plays he can't be more than 65-70% fit.

That was jammy in fairness. Our defence has been poor but no denying we've rarely got the rub back there either. Come on lads, we're playing well here.

That was jammy in fairness. Our defence has been poor but no denying we've rarely got the rub back there either. Come on lads, we're playing well here.

Warnock booing is embarrassing. Seriously, there's just no need to boo a player for being shit. Boo the manager for picking him.

As much as he's rubbish (as he really has been), the Warnock booing is shameful.

He wasn't great today to be honest. Very poor anticipation for first pen and caught out of position on a few occasions. This brings me back to the manager though - our defenders arn't great but for them all to be consistently error prone points to chronic problems with organisation.

He dug Cuellar, Warnock and Hutton out of trouble on more than a few occasions - awful challenge, classic Dunne but fair's fair.

FFS put the ball in the box. For once we get men forward, including Dunne, on the counter and N'Zog runs the ball out of play.

Awful, awful, awful. James Collins has to be dropped at this point. He's having a truly awful season and, unlike Dunne, it isn't a dip in form - he's by a distance the most unintelligent footballer I've seen in the top flight. Always travelling/sliding/diving for the ball and once again it cost us cheap goals. Heskey too - what a waste of time. Most of all McLeish needs to take the kids gloves off and get real with the squad and with himself. Spurs are a fine team but our tactics and attitude were totally wrong for tonight. Dreadful.

But that's what I'm saying - you're disingenuously suggesting he played one game. He didn't. He played eight domestically, in Europe and internationally. I'm sure you'll laugh that off, but I'm asserting that over those games he did well and basing my opinions on those games. Evidence. Actually I think that's exactly what you're doing. I've only commented on the games he HAS played in. Fine, no problem with that. Except on the last part - why do you think that? I asked previously and you ignored it. I'd say it's an opinion held by a minority, although I'm happy for you to prove me wrong. Don't want you to, haven't asked you to - no need to be defensive. See above on the one game thing. But I am basing my opinion on what I've seen. Where did I claim mine holds more factual basis? I haven't, not once. Just asserted my opinion based on what I've seen of the goalkeeper. I've asserted his ability remains sharp, explained why, you've said otherwise and I've asked why...so far as I can tell your answer is limited to he didn't play much last season and you don't fancy him much. As I've said before, fair enough but I think it's a baffling assertion to make given his solid performances to date (including those he made last year). No I'm not. I'm going on the fact that I've been watching Given closely throughout his career and I've seen no sign in the last season or two that his ability is in anyway diminished. You say you have, I ask why and you say he hasn't played much - you see where I'm going here? My opinion, based on games he's played. Your opinion appears based more on the games he hasn't played. Look as you've said, you don't really rate him which is fine but I've asked repeatedly for you to offer a more detailed view on why he's losing ability and you haven't. You've just gotten defensive. He only played eight times last year. Not a great number. But he seemed plenty able in those games. So somebody tell me - how can the conclusion he's losing ability be made? Who talked about him being on his way out a season ago and why? When has his form dipped really badly? What part of his game has really deteriorated from ten years ago?

Who and how? Given's been pretty much consistent to my mind - what could be considered small dips in form are easily attributable to injury. To suggest his form or ability is on the slide is guesswork - he played more than once last season, and every time he was solid and better. But you'd rather ignore when he did play and speculate on a lessening on form based on - what? I'm not really sure. I'm basing my opinion on what I've seen in the last year and before. You appear to be guessing - not necessarily a bad thing (maybe you have a feeling in your water) but I've seen no evidence of a drop in ability and it's an opinion borne out, I believe, by the people who've watched him play regularly for ROI or sporadically for Man City. As for Foster, I think Given's a better keeper. If you disagree that's fine, but I find it baffling people are ignoring evidence to the contrary to insist his ability is on the wane based on a hunch.

Sure - so weigh it up on other factors. In ability every time Given has appeared in the last few years he's been the same quality, whether that was for Man City or Ireland. Fans of those sides will tell you as much. There appears no real drop off in his ability. The fitness fears are more real, but they're still built more on speculation. For me Given's the best keeper we could get, so worth the risk. People will feel differently - or about Foster or whoever - but I don't think anyone has been consistently as good as Shay. Like I said - I can't help but feel his spell on the bench has made everyone forget just how good he is but I'm confident he'll prove his ability at VP.

Carlo Cudicini has never, and will never, be the level of Given. The comparison is ridiculous. Cudicini's a fine shot stopper but come on... Why do you people keep insisting we'll be replacing him in a year? That's just guess work based on his fitness record and a bit of scaremongering about shoulder injuries - and regular games, keeping the body fit and focused, is as likely to solve the problem than to knack him. Let's be realistic. There are risks in this signing but the benefits win out - gamble works and it's a masterstroke. Ask the fan of every club he's played for, including Man City, and they'll tell you he's consistently top class. 113 caps for his country, and never ever let them down, tells it's own story too.

Given's control of his back line and area is excellent. Better than Friedel certainly, and better than many top keepers as he has more than enough pace to get off his line and is brave and agile to make saves and close down attackers. Moreover his experience and ability in marshalling defences is top notch. If you're referring to Given's penchant for sticking to his line on crosses, that'd be more accurate. But Pepe Reina collects less crosses than an atheist and no one gives him any grief. Given's one of the top goalie's in the Prem and has been for a decade and a half. He shouldn't have anything to prove on ability. He's at least as good as signing as Friedel was and I think better, since he'll likely go for longer. Fitness wise, the move is more concerning but these risks are always there. Guy's ability at the price is more than worth the punt. A fantastic keeper who will get us points, guaranteed. I can't help but think a lot of people commenting have forgotten just how good he is - that's Given's fault for bench warming but there's some seriously short memories....

Kuszczak played behind one of the meanest defences in the world and for one of the greatest team's, rarely being put under sustained pressure of the kind he will find at Villa. Yet he still managed to drop clangers on a regular basis. No thanks.

Reo Coker has been AWFUL.

Houllier has to do something - it's W.Ham's players popping up between the two flat four's that's causing most of the problems. Doesn't help are CB's are back to their worst and the CM's have been non-existent.

I've seen those given as a pen but only because ref's are being soft. It was a fair shoulder and Cole made the most of it for someone who likes to bash defenders around. Happy enough to see Honey Monster give him some back.

Houllier had it tough today with defensive injuries but our back four problems are endemic of poor coaching and myopic tactics by the manager. Make no mistake - we are punching far below our weight and it's solely Houllier's fault. No excuses - no 'it's not his players', no 'he needs time', and especially no 'he's changing our style'. Seriously I'd much rather we played muck today and won, we're in danger of slipping into the bottom three. It is possible to play better football AND win games. The fact Houllier's manages to get the team to occasionally play well, but are still producing bad results, is hardly a win for him.

Not getting the Bradley love fest. He looks busy but has misplaced a couple (Petrov got booked early on after a rubbish ball from him), and he looks slightly off the pace. Petrov had no excuse though rubbish. Totally overrun in midfield by a team playing in 2nd gear. Houllier's selection is terrible but the 11 picked are so flat, it's embarrassing.

A shocking line-up away to Man City. All for rotation, but tonight's is just idiotic. He could still turn it around, by getting some actually wingers on, encouraging them to play higher up the pitch and changing the midfield because Bannan, Petrov and Bradley are being utterly dominated.

For all out possession football we've done nothing with it. We should play to our strengths and play people (Young, Downing, Albrighton) in their best positions. As much as we played rank football under MON I'd love for us to rediscover a bit of bite and pressure. United have had it far too easy on the ball. Dunne and Collins woeful again, what a shock. They are far better than this.