Running

[CVByrne]

20 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

Bit late and possibly bad advice but I’d just try to maintain your pace and increase the distance slowly. No reason you shouldn’t be doing a sub 3 and a half hour marathon with your times as long as you can get used to the extra mileage.

Thanks, that's exactly what I'm doing. Setting the pace at just under 5m per k and adding distance. Have 21k to do tomorrow. Did an 18k before Christmas

[dubbs]

I've got to restart my C25K programme.  Went to week 9, had an issue with a clearing in the woods from our street which totally destroyed my confidence but I need to get back out there. 

[PieFacE]

So after putting on a considerable amount of weight during lockdown and generally doing 0 exercise for years I decided about a month ago to start running again. After recovering from a minor knee injury (assume due to not running for so long) I'm currently able to run 3k in about 20 minutes but am struggling to do much more.  My goal is to try and run 5k in 25-30mins which I used to be able to do many years ago but not sure how feasible it is now. 

I also bought some proper running shoes which seem to make quite a big difference 

Anyone got any tips for extending runs once you hit a wall? 

Edited January 5, 2022 by PieFacE

[robby b]

On 10/09/2021 at 13:40, rodders0223 said:

I can play football every week I can run on a treadmill I can walk all day but if i run on the roads my ankles/achilles is in bits.

Is it the surface the different terrain my trainers or I'm just in bits?

I've never had a serious injury or anything.

I greatly reduced my running on pavements and cycle paths 8 years ago when I was diagnosed with osteopenia in my hips; I worried about the impact on them and the possibility of a sudden fall. Since then I've run mainly on grass and earth: playing fields, the lawns along the sea in Eastbourne and the footpaths on the South Downs (till moving to Wales recently).

But in winter playing fields in parks get so full of wet mud which must contain some dog poo in places, nice! : <  So until the spring I'm running along a canal towpath, which isn't ideal as its surface is a hard material, like a cycle path's. 

[Danwichmann]

55 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

So after putting on a considerable amount of weight during lockdown and generally doing 0 exercise for years I decided about a month ago to start running again. After recovering from a minor knee injury (assume due to not running for so long) I'm currently able to run 3k in about 20 minutes but am struggling to do much more.  My goal is to try and run 5k in 25-30mins which I used to be able to do many years ago but not sure how feasible it is now. 

I also bought some proper running shoes which seem to make quite a big difference 

Anyone got any tips for extending runs once you hit a wall? 

Put walk breaks into your runs. Don't wait until you hit the wall to take the break, decide when you are going to take them and stick with it. If you are doing 20 min runs right now, I'd suggest trying something like 4 minutes running, 2 minutes walking and see how you get on. You'll be building time on feet and before long you'll need a lot less breaks. 

[Danwichmann]

39 minutes ago, robby b said:

I greatly reduced my running on pavements and cycle paths 8 years ago when I was diagnosed with osteopenia in my hips; I worried about the impact on them and the possibility of a sudden fall. Since then I've run mainly on grass and earth: playing fields, the lawns along the sea in Eastbourne and the footpaths on the South Downs (till moving to Wales recently).

But in winter playing fields in parks get so full of wet mud which must contain some dog poo in places, nice! : <  So until the spring I'm running along a canal towpath, which isn't ideal as its surface is a hard material, like a cycle path's. 

Take up trail running! Get's you off the hard surfaces and because you are constantly changing your stride and engaging different muscles, it's generally a lot easier on the joints. It's also a lot more fun! 

[robby b]

1 hour ago, Danwichmann said:

Take up trail running! Get's you off the hard surfaces and because you are constantly changing your stride and engaging different muscles, it's generally a lot easier on the joints. It's also a lot more fun! 

Yes, that's mainly what I was doing from 2018 to 2021, on the South Downs, as they're right next to Eastbourne. I loved it!  But trails, like playing fields, are really muddy in the winter. I think I might run in hills just from April to October, depending on the amount of rainfall in those two months.

Edited January 5, 2022 by robby b

[theboyangel]

3 hours ago, PieFacE said:

So after putting on a considerable amount of weight during lockdown and generally doing 0 exercise for years I decided about a month ago to start running again. After recovering from a minor knee injury (assume due to not running for so long) I'm currently able to run 3k in about 20 minutes but am struggling to do much more.  My goal is to try and run 5k in 25-30mins which I used to be able to do many years ago but not sure how feasible it is now. 

I also bought some proper running shoes which seem to make quite a big difference 

Anyone got any tips for extending runs once you hit a wall? 

Good luck @PieFacE as others have said, break up runs with a few minutes walking when initially trying to run further distances.

Sadly, my running career is officially over as just diagnosed with a stress fracture across several metatarsal bones in my right foot. It’s been inflamed and extremely painful for almost 3 weeks so had an x-ray today confirming the injury… 

Admittedly I’ve never really enjoyed running but stuck with it out of necessity to keep fit etc. 

once healed I won’t go back to anything which impacts on my feet so switching to cycling and swimming… will have to find a thread for that

 

[El Zen]

29 minutes ago, theboyangel said:

switching to cycling and swimming… will have to find a thread for that

 

Try this one  

 

[theboyangel]

55 minutes ago, El Zen said:

Try this one  

 

How very dare you - take that back!

Edited January 5, 2022 by theboyangel

[M_Allback_14]

Hoping to return to Parkrun this Saturday for the first time since COVID - I know it’s been back running for a while again but it’s taken me until now to get the motivation 

Just checked my account and I was up to 19 runs across 4 different sites so I think once I’m back into it I’ll try a few new ones to keep it fresh

[CVByrne]

On 26/12/2021 at 23:03, KentVillan said:

Hi mate, the big problem with training plans is what works for one person doesn’t work for another, and that’s regardless of pace / fitness… we’re all just built differently.

This is especially noticeable with marathon distances because if you try and do something that isn’t quite right for you, you’ll definitely get injured.

As it’s your first time pushing yourself this far, I would personally look into “run walk” training as a way to build up the mileage safely.

The reason I like it is you can do a long run of 1hr, 2hr, etc but you go a little bit quicker than a normal steady long run, which for me means I run with better form and more naturally. But the walking breaks (starting early on in the run - not when you’re gasping!) stop you from burning out and you can do some pretty impressive mileage without hurting yourself.

And no, run walk isn’t just for beginners. Plenty of athletes much quicker than you swear by it.

https://www.podiumrunner.com/training/how-run-walk-training-can-make-you-stronger-and-faster/

But as I say, give it a go and see how you get on. There’s plenty of good resources online with more info.

I think it will help you cope with this natural instinct to go quicker, but also ramp up your mileage without getting injured. Just gives you a bit more flexibility - and you can play around with pace vs run:walk ratio.

Edit: and just to be clear - you can take any existing plan you've got, and just make the long run into a run-walk session. Don't need to play about with the tempos, intervals, recoveries, etc.

My core aim for Long Runs was to add distance at Marathon Pace. This is because my Lactate Threshold pace is around 4:10 per k so running 5 mins per k is very easy. I did my first Half Marathon distance on Monday in 1h43m and ran negative splits, the final 10k was in 47m25s. I know this isn't how a marathon will be run, but I wanted to see where I am at now just as I start the 12 week training plan on Sunday.

I think the run walk is a good idea. I'd adapt it to run / recovery though. So 4k at Marathon Pace 1k jog recovery. I have a nice 12k loop from my house and back along canal to park and around it. So I can do a walk section after first 12k loop to refuel then do second 12k loop. If I do a 25k for my next Long Run I'll do the run / recovery so 5x 4k at Marathon Pace and 1k recovery. That should get me to about 2hr10m on my feet 

[CVByrne]

On 27/12/2021 at 05:14, Danwichmann said:

I would pretty much just keeping doing what you're doing, except for adding a long run once a week. Obviously, slower than your regular running, but once you've got in to the swing of them start adding some faster intervals. I think you could also aim for something closer to 3:30 given your 10km pace.

3:30 pace for intervals would be too difficult. I do the 3:45 pace for the 5 x 800m repeats with 200m jog recovery, with the final 800m I run the full 1k. This I find is a great 5k workout as you run the full 5k and can choose what the 200m recovery is, a walk a jog or a pace change. I actually ran my fastest 5k this way when I was doing about 50s for the recoveries and 3mins for the 800m.

I think I really need to improve my running form to get the proper next level in the times. I've bad anterior pelvic tilt from decades of sitting at a desk. So constantly having to focus on form and doing right stretches of quads and hip flexors and need to strengthen the hamstrings and glutes. Taking a lot of time but I hope the distance running will help as it;s easier to focus on form running at an easier pace.

[CVByrne]

 

20 hours ago, PieFacE said:

So after putting on a considerable amount of weight during lockdown and generally doing 0 exercise for years I decided about a month ago to start running again. After recovering from a minor knee injury (assume due to not running for so long) I'm currently able to run 3k in about 20 minutes but am struggling to do much more.  My goal is to try and run 5k in 25-30mins which I used to be able to do many years ago but not sure how feasible it is now. 

I also bought some proper running shoes which seem to make quite a big difference 

Anyone got any tips for extending runs once you hit a wall? 

So technically you can't hit the wall as you've enough stored energy in your body for 15-20k of running. What is happening is your body has too much lactic acid built up you have to stop. This is purely fitness, you can run through this "wall" you need to train to move the wall to later and later in the run. 

I think what you need to do is pace change running. You are running about 6:40 per k for 3k and your target is a sub 30m 5k which is 6mins per k. I suggest you do a run walk as next run. So 500m at 6 mins per k and 500m walking if you do  5x that it'll be a 5k distance. If you can't manage that then increase the walking recovery and reduce the running distance, like 400m run and 600m walk. Once you've completed one successfully you have your baseline. The goal now is to increase the running distance and reduce the walking recovery. So 600m run 400m walk. Or you could switch the walking recovery for a jog recovery. 

As you get fitter (and you will) you will need less rest between these. You should work up to 5 x 800m and 5x 200m recovery where you are jogging the recoveries. You're then at the stage to try a full 5k at the target pace. 

Remember you will have off days where it feels like you've gone backwards but that is 100% normal, everyone suffers them. 

[PieFacE]

8 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

 

So technically you can't hit the wall as you've enough stored energy in your body for 15-20k of running. What is happening is your body has too much lactic acid built up you have to stop. This is purely fitness, you can run through this "wall" you need to train to move the wall to later and later in the run. 

I think what you need to do is pace change running. You are running about 6:40 per k for 3k and your target is a sub 30m 5k which is 6mins per k. I suggest you do a run walk as next run. So 500m at 6 mins per k and 500m walking if you do  5x that it'll be a 5k distance. If you can't manage that then increase the walking recovery and reduce the running distance, like 400m run and 600m walk. Once you've completed one successfully you have your baseline. The goal now is to increase the running distance and reduce the walking recovery. So 600m run 400m walk. Or you could switch the walking recovery for a jog recovery. 

As you get fitter (and you will) you will need less rest between these. You should work up to 5 x 800m and 5x 200m recovery where you are jogging the recoveries. You're then at the stage to try a full 5k at the target pace. 

Remember you will have off days where it feels like you've gone backwards but that is 100% normal, everyone suffers them. 

Thank you. I shall try this later today. 

[KentVillan]

2 hours ago, CVByrne said:

My core aim for Long Runs was to add distance at Marathon Pace. This is because my Lactate Threshold pace is around 4:10 per k so running 5 mins per k is very easy. I did my first Half Marathon distance on Monday in 1h43m and ran negative splits, the final 10k was in 47m25s. I know this isn't how a marathon will be run, but I wanted to see where I am at now just as I start the 12 week training plan on Sunday.

I think the run walk is a good idea. I'd adapt it to run / recovery though. So 4k at Marathon Pace 1k jog recovery. I have a nice 12k loop from my house and back along canal to park and around it. So I can do a walk section after first 12k loop to refuel then do second 12k loop. If I do a 25k for my next Long Run I'll do the run / recovery so 5x 4k at Marathon Pace and 1k recovery. That should get me to about 2hr10m on my feet 

Yep, I think you could be right - main thing is mixing up the pace a bit, which means you aren’t stuck in a very monotonous stride, which IMO is where a lot of overuse injuries occur as you increase mileage.

What I like about the walk breaks is you can really loosen up between runs, open the gate, turn your hips, shake out your shoulders, etc, which again I find helps you to avoid injury.

But play around with what works for you. Main priority is managing that big mileage increase in a controlled way that stops you from getting injured. Sounds like you’re being sensible.

[Wainy316]

I haven't done Park Run for a few years and I know I'm past my physical peak so I don't want to run anymore and bring my average time down on their database.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Wainy316

[CVByrne]

On 06/01/2022 at 10:44, KentVillan said:

Yep, I think you could be right - main thing is mixing up the pace a bit, which means you aren’t stuck in a very monotonous stride, which IMO is where a lot of overuse injuries occur as you increase mileage.

What I like about the walk breaks is you can really loosen up between runs, open the gate, turn your hips, shake out your shoulders, etc, which again I find helps you to avoid injury.

But play around with what works for you. Main priority is managing that big mileage increase in a controlled way that stops you from getting injured. Sounds like you’re being sensible.

I'm going up 3k each time. Ran 24k today in avg pace of 4:52 which was 1s per k faster than the half marathon last week. I did 1k at n easy pace too, I drank a lucozade.

I'll do 27k next then 30k. I'll probably do a few around the 30k mark as I've read a lot that the majority of the training benefits come with a 2h to 2:30 run. Doing too many runs further increases injury risk. I'll then do a 33k and 36k 3 weeks from the race and then taper. 

Interestingly I ran my second fastest 5k time ever on Saturday. So there are benefits at the shorter distances from these long runs too.

[Danwichmann]

7 hours ago, CVByrne said:

I'm going up 3k each time. Ran 24k today in avg pace of 4:52 which was 1s per k faster than the half marathon last week. I did 1k at n easy pace too, I drank a lucozade.

I'll do 27k next then 30k. I'll probably do a few around the 30k mark as I've read a lot that the majority of the training benefits come with a 2h to 2:30 run. Doing too many runs further increases injury risk. I'll then do a 33k and 36k 3 weeks from the race and then taper. 

Interestingly I ran my second fastest 5k time ever on Saturday. So there are benefits at the shorter distances from these long runs too.

It sounds like your training is well on track and you have a good plan. Don't forget to throw in a low mileage week every 4 weeks or so, your body will need it and you'll progress better having given yourself a chance to do some proper recovery. 

[M_Allback_14]

Missed parkrun run yesterday so was keen to get out today and managed to complete 10km for the first time 

Really enjoying it at the moment rather than seeing it as something I need to do which is massively helping

I’ve never spent more than £50 or so on footwear to run in but I might be justifying an upgrade soon