Running

[villan-scott]

On 22/04/2024 at 18:28, Risso said:

Looking forward to hearing how our VT London marathoners got on.

I managed it and got round. Time was never important to me - I enjoyed the day and the occasion! Proud! 

[T-Dog]

4 minutes ago, villan-scott said:

I managed it and got round. Time was never important to me - I enjoyed the day and the occasion! Proud! 

Fair play mate, time isn't important in the slightest, you've achieved something that very few ever could. Dedication, commitment, strength, stamina to say the least. Nothing but respect mate, well done.

[villan-scott]

1 minute ago, T-Dog said:

Fair play mate, time isn't important in the slightest, you've achieved something that very few ever could. Dedication, commitment, strength, stamina to say the least. Nothing but respect mate, well done.

Thanks mate. The pictures tell their own story I think it was about 5 hours in the end so respectable at least! Hugely struggling between 16-20 but then was reinvigorated for the final 6.2 miles. The crowd were unbelievable all the way round!

[T-Dog]

3 minutes ago, villan-scott said:

Thanks mate. The pictures tell their own story I think it was about 5 hours in the end so respectable at least! Hugely struggling between 16-20 but then was reinvigorated for the final 6.2 miles. The crowd were unbelievable all the way round!

Mate, a humungous achievement, I used to run and would struggle with 2.6 miles at the minute and I don't think I'm particularly unfit, so I've nothing but respect sir. 

I hope you tell every single person about it for the next 12 months until you do it again next year, because I know you got that bug  

Nothing but the highest level of respect my man.

[andyjsg]

So my marathon PTSD didn't last that long, I'm signed up for Abingdon in October

[Paddywhack]

On 19/01/2024 at 14:50, Paddywhack said:

I've just signed up for my second ever marathon in Newport on 28th April. Obviously I was very eager to give it another go, I've only waited nearly 6 and a half years.

I came back to read this post to remind myself of how disappointed I was last time and to take training seriously. You get what you deserve.

14 week training block starts Monday. Let's go!

It wasn’t pretty, but I dragged myself over the finish line today in 4:24. I’m quite happy with that to be honest.

I stayed with the 4:00 pacer until mile 16, but then I started struggling. I bit off more than I could chew.

I’m going to leave it another 6 years before thinking about a marathon I think. They’re horrible!

[andyjsg]

1 hour ago, Paddywhack said:

It wasn’t pretty, but I dragged myself over the finish line today in 4:24. I’m quite happy with that to be honest.

I stayed with the 4:00 pacer until mile 16, but then I started struggling. I bit off more than I could chew.

I’m going to leave it another 6 years before thinking about a marathon I think. They’re horrible!

Superb!! Looked wet.

Had a few club members do it, one of them had a marathon debut and 2nd place - ridiculous!!

[Paddywhack]

11 hours ago, andyjsg said:

Superb!! Looked wet.

Had a few club members do it, one of them had a marathon debut and 2nd place - ridiculous!!

No, this was in Newport, it was lovely and sunny. I’ve got a nice tan haha

[andyjsg]

22 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

No, this was in Newport, it was lovely and sunny. I’ve got a nice tan haha

No you are right, someone said it was wet (on their Strava) but that was a different race 

Had 5 from my training group, all of them seemed to have had a good race so it looks like a decent course. also super flat, 1/3 of the climbing of say London.

[pas5898]

On 24/04/2024 at 22:38, villan-scott said:

Thanks mate. The pictures tell their own story I think it was about 5 hours in the end so respectable at least! Hugely struggling between 16-20 but then was reinvigorated for the final 6.2 miles. The crowd were unbelievable all the way round!

Where do you think you need to be running distance wise in training to complete a marathon? 

I ran 2 marathons in my early 20s on no training, but I played football 3 times a week, was 20kg lighter, 15 years younger and not shaped like a wonky potato.

I'd like to set myself a target of running one next year. 10k is about my limit at the moment. 

Edited Monday at 12:11 by pas5898

[Danwichmann]

14 minutes ago, pas5898 said:

Where do you think you need to be running distance wise in training to complete a marathon? 

I ran 2 marathons in my early 20s on no training, but I played football 3 times a week, was 20kg lighter, 15 years younger and not shaped like a wonky potato.

I'd like to set myself a target of running one next year. 10k is about my limit at the moment. 

There's no real answer to this. A lot of coaches and runners now promote lower milage training for marathons so you don't need to be running that much each week to be able to run one. I think the standard long run most people will aim to complete at least once in a marathon training cycle is 20 miles, but plenty of people manage it without that as well. 

But if you can run 10km now and you are looking at marathons next year, then there is absolutely no question you can 100% do it. Find one you like the look of and get signed up. 

[villan-scott]

1 minute ago, Danwichmann said:

There's no real answer to this. A lot of coaches and runners now promote lower milage training for marathons so you don't need to be running that much each week to be able to run one. I think the standard long run most people will aim to complete at least once in a marathon training cycle is 20 miles, but plenty of people manage it without that as well. 

But if you can run 10km now and you are looking at marathons next year, then there is absolutely no question you can 100% do it. Find one you like the look of and get signed up. 

Echo this really @pas5898 

I wasn’t a keen runner so started from zero. Proper training started in Jan. I was doing shorter runs in the week - 5/6/7 miles as I progressed. Then long ones at the weekend. I did a fair few 11/12/13 milers. My longest was 18 but only once. 

They say the key thing is getting time in your legs and strengthening them. Sounds like you have a good base so absolutely could do a marathon next year! 

[CVByrne]

17 hours ago, pas5898 said:

Where do you think you need to be running distance wise in training to complete a marathon? 

I ran 2 marathons in my early 20s on no training, but I played football 3 times a week, was 20kg lighter, 15 years younger and not shaped like a wonky potato.

I'd like to set myself a target of running one next year. 10k is about my limit at the moment. 

You just need to increase the volume (ie the amount of running you do)

Max distance you need to run in prep is around 30 or 32k. It depends on how fast you can run. The key to it is building aerobic capacity, which is just lots of easy running, the speed where you can hold a conversation or if you've a watch hear rate zone 2.

Getting up to two 45 mins easy runs and a long run that progresses to 32k is the main work. The best part of aerobic or easy runs is it's called the fat burning zone as the body breaks down fat into ATP for the body to use as fuel instead of the stored glycogen in the muscles and Liver. So you'll lose weight and get fitter (it basically is a workout for your heart and strengthens it, which is the key to the health benefits of exercise).

[andyjsg]

On 30/04/2024 at 06:45, CVByrne said:

You just need to increase the volume (ie the amount of running you do)

Max distance you need to run in prep is around 30 or 32k. It depends on how fast you can run. The key to it is building aerobic capacity, which is just lots of easy running, the speed where you can hold a conversation or if you've a watch hear rate zone 2.

Getting up to two 45 mins easy runs and a long run that progresses to 32k is the main work. The best part of aerobic or easy runs is it's called the fat burning zone as the body breaks down fat into ATP for the body to use as fuel instead of the stored glycogen in the muscles and Liver. So you'll lose weight and get fitter (it basically is a workout for your heart and strengthens it, which is the key to the health benefits of exercise).

The training session I swear by is doing a 18-20 mile run on no food so no breakfast and no gels, its horrendous and invariably ends up a bit of a death march but my god does it make you efficient for glycogen burning. I do this once or twice on a training plan and def helps me.

[T-Dog]

On 30/04/2024 at 06:45, CVByrne said:

You just need to increase the volume (ie the amount of running you do)

Max distance you need to run in prep is around 30 or 32k. It depends on how fast you can run. The key to it is building aerobic capacity, which is just lots of easy running, the speed where you can hold a conversation or if you've a watch hear rate zone 2.

Getting up to two 45 mins easy runs and a long run that progresses to 32k is the main work. The best part of aerobic or easy runs is it's called the fat burning zone as the body breaks down fat into ATP for the body to use as fuel instead of the stored glycogen in the muscles and Liver. So you'll lose weight and get fitter (it basically is a workout for your heart and strengthens it, which is the key to the health benefits of exercise).

Whilst the point about running in Zone 2 is true, I thought it was proven that the overall difference was considered almost pointless unless Calories consumed was restricted too? (This was a long time ago, but I'm sure there was a whitepaper on it). For someone running at Zone 3 and eating normal food, the overall % of 'fat' calories burnt was usually lower, but overall calories burnt was higher, which meant the total 'fat' calories was about the same? I might be wrong, but I definitely remember reading something about it, but this could've been 10+ years ago.

But also, there's a million other reasons to run at Zone 2 anyway, not always, but definitely embrace it. Running at that Zone fixed so many problems for me, with injury, stamina, even just the desire to run. 

[CVByrne]

8 hours ago, T-Dog said:

Whilst the point about running in Zone 2 is true, I thought it was proven that the overall difference was considered almost pointless unless Calories consumed was restricted too? (This was a long time ago, but I'm sure there was a whitepaper on it). For someone running at Zone 3 and eating normal food, the overall % of 'fat' calories burnt was usually lower, but overall calories burnt was higher, which meant the total 'fat' calories was about the same? I might be wrong, but I definitely remember reading something about it, but this could've been 10+ years ago.

But also, there's a million other reasons to run at Zone 2 anyway, not always, but definitely embrace it. Running at that Zone fixed so many problems for me, with injury, stamina, even just the desire to run. 

It depends what you mean by this. If you are talking about fat burning, then yes the primary is the overall net deficit of calories burnt vs consumed. But the fitness benefits for your heart, muscles, bones etc.. will take place at Zone 2. 

In relation to the Zone 3, yes it will burn more calories but it will put more stain on the body. Easy running (ie Zone 2) is easy, thus you can get to the 180 mins a week of it where you get the maximum benefits for general health. Doing that at Zone 3 is much harder, could lead to injury and doesn't give the right marginal benefits for the extra effort. 

I started out Zone 3 and Zone 4 for all running. Put as much as I could into each run and then had rest to recover. I was aiming for fast Park run times. I was doing the wrong training for sure. 

Really all running is broken down into 3 types. Easy, Threshold (or tempo) and Vo2 Max (or speed).

Easy is Easy running, it trains your Aerobic threshold (also known as where you have raised lactate in the blood but its steady). 

Threshold, is lactate threshold (zone 4), or the point just before lactate starts building up exponentially in blood and you get the burn and have to slow down. Basically this is the speed a few seconds slower than your fastest 10k time. Or There are a few ways to kind of work this speed out. Training at this speed basically improves your bodies ability to clear lactate from the blood and thus allows you run faster at this speed over time.

Finally Vo2 Max or speed, these are to improve your maximum capacity to use oxygen. These are short repeats of high intensity, so 200m sprints wth recovery for example. 

The 80:20 rule is the most significant thing I ever learned about running. 80% (or sometimes as high as 85%) of all running is done Easy, then 15-20% done at Threshold or Vo2 max. 

For example, I now do 5 runs a week. Two 45 min easy runs, and one 90m+ long run, 1 Threshold repeats (for example 5x 2k at threshold pace with 500m jogging recovery between). Then 1 VO2 max session (I mix sessions between hill sprints, 200m or 400m intervals). 

Monday - Rest

Tuesday - Threshold

Wed - Easy

Thurs - Rest

Friday - VO2 Max

Sat - Easy

Sunday - Long Run 

[T-Dog]

1 hour ago, CVByrne said:

It depends what you mean by this. If you are talking about fat burning, then yes the primary is the overall net deficit of calories burnt vs consumed. But the fitness benefits for your heart, muscles, bones etc.. will take place at Zone 2. 

In relation to the Zone 3, yes it will burn more calories but it will put more stain on the body. Easy running (ie Zone 2) is easy, thus you can get to the 180 mins a week of it where you get the maximum benefits for general health. Doing that at Zone 3 is much harder, could lead to injury and doesn't give the right marginal benefits for the extra effort. 

I started out Zone 3 and Zone 4 for all running. Put as much as I could into each run and then had rest to recover. I was aiming for fast Park run times. I was doing the wrong training for sure. 

Really all running is broken down into 3 types. Easy, Threshold (or tempo) and Vo2 Max (or speed).

Easy is Easy running, it trains your Aerobic threshold (also known as where you have raised lactate in the blood but its steady). 

Threshold, is lactate threshold (zone 4), or the point just before lactate starts building up exponentially in blood and you get the burn and have to slow down. Basically this is the speed a few seconds slower than your fastest 10k time. Or There are a few ways to kind of work this speed out. Training at this speed basically improves your bodies ability to clear lactate from the blood and thus allows you run faster at this speed over time.

Finally Vo2 Max or speed, these are to improve your maximum capacity to use oxygen. These are short repeats of high intensity, so 200m sprints wth recovery for example. 

The 80:20 rule is the most significant thing I ever learned about running. 80% (or sometimes as high as 85%) of all running is done Easy, then 15-20% done at Threshold or Vo2 max. 

For example, I now do 5 runs a week. Two 45 min easy runs, and one 90m+ long run, 1 Threshold repeats (for example 5x 2k at threshold pace with 500m jogging recovery between). Then 1 VO2 max session (I mix sessions between hill sprints, 200m or 400m intervals). 

Monday - Rest

Tuesday - Threshold

Wed - Easy

Thurs - Rest

Friday - VO2 Max

Sat - Easy

Sunday - Long Run 

Great reply, thank you