nick76 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Just now, Villa_Vids said: London is over saturated. Birmingham/West Midland is ripe for growth. We’ve said the same every decade since I can remember. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Reivax_Villa said: I read that the bluenoses are buying some land in the Bordesley Green area to build a super stadium as the hub for sports and entertainment in the city.. If this is true i can see NSWE responding with something bigger! TBF I don't think they're doing that out of ambition, but because St Andrews is genuinely a huge safety risk and money sink. They're having to spend tens of millions a year (as a Championship club) just to try and prevent that dump from crumbling down: there are some photos online of the condition of the stadium below the stands, etc. and it's genuinely horrific. I'd be very surprised if their advertised "super stadium" didn't end up just being a relatively similar 30k or so build that doesn't have that imminent health risk and massive maintenance costs. Anything more than that would be hilarious, they don't come close to selling out their stadium as it is and I don't think a Super Stadium would reverse that when they're in League 1. I'm sure I saw someone say on here that Purslow did suggest recently that the North Stand was pretty similar in terms of being a health hazard (which although you have to imagine there's some sour grapes there is probably true), although clearly the issues aren't nearly as bad as at St Andrews. Edited March 27 by wishywashy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 27 Moderator Share Posted March 27 15 minutes ago, Mazrim said: And in reply I would say that London, Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol, Oxford, Nottingham, Sheffield, Leicester etc are all in Birmingham's catchment area. There's also no point in keep talking about London. We're not building a stadium there, even theoretically, and if we were to build a new stadium of course we would look at all the ways to maximise revenue including national and international events because, whether you agree or not, Birmingham is very well situated for it. Case in point: the busiest Exhibition centre in Europe is there. What isn't there is a stadium big enough to host the kind of events being discussed. London has several, Manchester has 1, arguably 2. It takes as long to get by train to London as it does to Birmingham from Liverpool. Pretty similar for most of those places. Birmingham is not currently on the West Coast Main Line proper and the speeds of trains on the West Mids rail network is vastly reduced. Now the 2nd leg of HS2 has been cancelled those services will now be further degraded in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 29 minutes ago, Mazrim said: Sorry mate, I'm not having it. Manchester has a more famous football club, and thats it. I think Manchester is a hole. But many, many times more people around the world have heard of it than Birmingham. I am constantly having to explain that Birmingham is a city and have been for the last 25 years of moving around the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, bickster said: It takes as long to get by train to London as it does to Birmingham from Liverpool. Pretty similar for most of those places. Birmingham is not currently on the West Coast Main Line proper and the speeds of trains on the West Mids rail network is vastly reduced. Now the 2nd leg of HS2 has been cancelled those services will now be further degraded in the future. Sorry, are you saying it takes as long to get to London from Liverpool by train as it does to get Birmingham from Liverpool? I know rail in the midlands could be better but that's not true is it? And not everybody travels by train. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 So in summary of the last 10 or so pages - Birmingham are going to have a much larger and better stadium than us and will benefit from all of the commercial revenue that comes with that, whilst we struggle along with our out-of-date stadium and lack of investment in that area… but… we will still see better football being played at VP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 27 Moderator Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, Mazrim said: Sorry, are you saying it takes as long to get to London from Liverpool by train as it does to get Birmingham from Liverpool? I know rail in the midlands could be better but that's not true is it? And not everybody travels by train. Yes and that is on direct trains no changes LPL - LEU = 2hrs 15, LPL - BHM = 2 hrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, bickster said: Yes and that is on direct trains no changes LPL - LEU = 2hrs 15, LPL - BHM = 2 hrs After some admittedly brief research and train journeys aren't a hill I want to die on, but average train time from Liverpool to London range from 2hrs 30 to 3 hours. LIverpool to Birmingham average 1 hour 35 to 1 hour 50. But like I said, this is just trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 27 Moderator Share Posted March 27 10 minutes ago, Mazrim said: After some admittedly brief research and train journeys aren't a hill I want to die on, but average train time from Liverpool to London range from 2hrs 30 to 3 hours. LIverpool to Birmingham average 1 hour 35 to 1 hour 50. But like I said, this is just trains. It doesn't matter, the times are still similar and most WCML trains do not go through Brum. The point isn't about the exact times though in my experience those times are more or less correct. Liverpool is almost as close to London in travel time as it is the Birmingham. Shall I drive to Birmingham - 2 hrs or get the train to London - just over 2hrs. The point is that Birmingham will never replace London as an event destination no matter how much Birmingham exceptionalism you apply. The sheer mountain of industries you'd have to change to achieve that is insurmountable. Birmingham would obviously get a few events, it already does, a new stadium increased capacity stadium with multi roles isn't going to change that. The versatility would be wasted money. Birmingham already has the NEC for a very large, well connected high capacity indoor venue, it doesn't put on that many events of the nature we're talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa_Vids Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 4 minutes ago, bickster said: It doesn't matter, the times are still similar and most WCML trains do not go through Brum. The point isn't about the exact times though in my experience those times are more or less correct. Liverpool is almost as close to London in travel time as it is the Birmingham. Shall I drive to Birmingham - 2 hrs or get the train to London - just over 2hrs. The point is that Birmingham will never replace London as an event destination no matter how much Birmingham exceptionalism you apply. The sheer mountain of industries you'd have to change to achieve that is insurmountable. Birmingham would obviously get a few events, it already does a new stadium increased capacity stadium with multi roles isn't going to change that isn't going to change that. The versatility would be wasted money. Birmingham already has the NEC for a very large, well connected high capacity indoor venue, it doesn't put on that many events of the nature we're talking about What do you think the club should do in regards to VP/New Stadium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 27 Moderator Share Posted March 27 4 minutes ago, Villa_Vids said: What do you think the club should do in regards to VP/New Stadium? Not waste money chasing income that doesn't exist and cant exist on a scale a lot of members of this forum imagine does exist We need to concentrate on being a football club, any extra income from events would buy us one of John McGinn's legs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 5 minutes ago, bickster said: It doesn't matter, the times are still similar and most WCML trains do not go through Brum. The point isn't about the exact times though in my experience those times are more or less correct. Liverpool is almost as close to London in travel time as it is the Birmingham. Shall I drive to Birmingham - 2 hrs or get the train to London - just over 2hrs. The point is that Birmingham will never replace London as an event destination no matter how much Birmingham exceptionalism you apply. The sheer mountain of industries you'd have to change to achieve that is insurmountable. Birmingham would obviously get a few events, it already does, a new stadium increased capacity stadium with multi roles isn't going to change that. The versatility would be wasted money. Birmingham already has the NEC for a very large, well connected high capacity indoor venue, it doesn't put on that many events of the nature we're talking about https://www.birmingham2022.com/venues/the-nec Quote The National Exhibition Centre (NEC) is the NEC Group’s flagship venue – where brands are born, products are launched, and networks are made. It is the UK’s largest exhibition venue and one of Europe’s leading event destinations. It welcomes around 2.3 million visitors and over 45,000 exhibiting companies to more than 500 events every year. That's a lot of events and a lot of visitors. If anything the competition the NEC would represent to a multi-use stadium is more of a reason not to go ahead than to say there are not enough events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb_82 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 NEC talked about alott, what about Alexander stadium ? Obviously in a different format but is that council owned and could we develop the site? Its in Villa area too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, bickster said: It doesn't matter, the times are still similar and most WCML trains do not go through Brum. The point isn't about the exact times though in my experience those times are more or less correct. Liverpool is almost as close to London in travel time as it is the Birmingham. Shall I drive to Birmingham - 2 hrs or get the train to London - just over 2hrs. The point is that Birmingham will never replace London as an event destination no matter how much Birmingham exceptionalism you apply. The sheer mountain of industries you'd have to change to achieve that is insurmountable. Birmingham would obviously get a few events, it already does, a new stadium increased capacity stadium with multi roles isn't going to change that. The versatility would be wasted money. Birmingham already has the NEC for a very large, well connected high capacity indoor venue, it doesn't put on that many events of the nature we're talking about OK, so here's my summing up as I don't want to labour it any more. I work in events, I know how dominant and important London is, and rightly so. Birmingham isn't going to replace London as a destination but the one thing that holds us back is the lack of a viable venue. We can do the 5-30k no problem, but nothing larger. Therefore a large stadium would absolutely make a big difference. And I'm sorry but as far as a choice of getting from Liverpool or Manchester to Birmingham or London being of no difference is just nonsense. On average its an hour difference by train, that's each way, so 2 hours or more on your day. And loads of people prefer to drive because trains are unreliable and overcrowded, therefore the question is do I drive and hour and a half or 2 hours to Birmingham or 3 or 4 hours to London? Or add an hour each way by coach at least. And what about other places like Nottingham, Bristol, Sheffield etc? This is absolutely considered by event organisers We've been crying out for a large stadium in the midlands for years and this could be the perfect opportunity. Only Aston Villa could justify it as a custodian. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted March 27 VT Supporter Share Posted March 27 New stadium at Bodymoor, training ground moved to VP. Transport links: non-existent. Golf: nearby. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichfield Dean Posted March 27 VT Supporter Share Posted March 27 20 minutes ago, cb_82 said: NEC talked about alott, what about Alexander stadium ? Obviously in a different format but is that council owned and could we develop the site? Its in Villa area too Been discussed before, and there are now obviously financial issues and other problems at the Alexander (although I don't know exactly what) but regardless, I'd hate to see Birmingham's premier athletics stadium and the home of Birchfield Harriers ruined by a football club. And equally, as west ham have proven, trying to make a football stadium that also needs to host athletics events doesn't really work very well. It's a huge 'no' from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa_Vids Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, bickster said: Not waste money chasing income that doesn't exist and cant exist on a scale a lot of members of this forum imagine does exist We need to concentrate on being a football club, any extra income from events would buy us one of John McGinn's legs I think that is happening tbh. I think the sporting aspect is NSWE's main objective (rightfully so) - that is the product and in which everything is linked around. But the fans could have more offerings and a better match day experience than is currently available at VP. I think that is the attraction to a new stadium, I also believe a little fear of seeing other clubs taking those steps to build new stadiums/entertainment/leisure zones is making us a bit jealous and nervous. At the end of the day, a new mega stadium is a bit of fun and fantasy. I think most of us want a successful sporting side rather than a concrete entertainment/event shell. Aston Villa is football. Edited March 27 by Villa_Vids 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MapleVilla Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 19 hours ago, bickster said: This is pure fantasy, it is incompatible with being a football club to host concerts all year round unless this is a completely different auditorium to the actual football. You can’t just flick a switch and a gig happens, you can’t even now with massive advances in grass technology just lay a new pitch one day and play on it the next. There’s a window of opportunity for three maybe four weeks at the end of a season for a football club to host stadium gigs. Three maybe four concerts in that window maximum. One of those gigs would probably gross a million quid for the club tops. It’s not the income stream you imagine it to be. . I dunno. The Bernabeu is exactly that. Admittedly they have more money to throw at it and the president also owns one of, if not the biggest construction company's in Spain. But I take your point gigs aren't going to be bringing in a massive revenue stream for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, Lichfield Dean said: Been discussed before, and there are now obviously financial issues and other problems at the Alexander (although I don't know exactly what) but regardless, I'd hate to see Birmingham's premier athletics stadium and the home of Birchfield Harriers ruined by a football club. And equally, as west ham have proven, trying to make a football stadium that also needs to host athletics events doesn't really work very well. It's a huge 'no' from me. I wondered a while ago whether they could build an athletics stadium at Villa Park and build a purpose-built 60k stadium at Alexander Stadium. Apparently there would still be issues with transport links though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa_Vids Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) Would it be feasible to build a new stadium with more land near the new inner city academy? Edited March 27 by Villa_Vids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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