TRO Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 2 hours ago, HKP90 said: Yes and no. You are right about the logo itself, but I would suggest that the overall image and perception of the club does impact, even subconsciously. 'How could I say no to signing for [Insert random club with good image that has not won anything for ages here], they are a massive club'. The words 'massive club' in this instance being a euphemism for 'I have a good feeling about this'. Edit- as long as the wages are competitive, obvs Benteke thought we was in London, before he signed, and Andy Gray didn't know where Aston Villa Was..........so I think you give footballers too much credit, for thinking of insignificant things ( for them)like badges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted June 23, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, TRO said: Benteke thought we was in London, before he signed, and Andy Gray didn't know where Aston Villa Was..........so I think you give footballers too much credit, for thinking of insignificant things ( for them)like badges. Haha, quite possibly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 You would assume that there is a date when need to decide what we are doing for next season kits and if they want another rebrand that's got to be decided quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 11 minutes ago, mykeyb said: You would assume that there is a date when need to decide what we are doing for next season kits and if they want another rebrand that's got to be decided quickly. Wouldn't surprise me if they reverted to the Lerner badge for 2024/25 and a new one only after that. It's a shambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) The problem is we got a new badge and finally got rid of the Lerner badge and now his guy comes and we have ended up in no man's land. It is a mess and he has got off to a bad start. Edited June 23, 2023 by Captain_Townsend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feidhlim Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Captain_Townsend said: The problem is we got a new badge and finally got rid of the Lerner badge and now his guy comes and we have ended up in no man's land. It is a mess and he has got off to a bad start. Far from it. Couldn't disagree more. Clear to me you haven't watched the video but that's ok, you're entitled to your opinion 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Out of the loop here what's going on with the new badge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, CarryOnVilla said: It’s more than swapping the badge around and jobs a good un. It’s the total rebrand package. the match day programs would need to be redesigned to match the branding all the signage around VP and BMH packaging Website social media content letter heads business cards team bus and loads more I can’t think of top of my head all of this will cost money and over a course of a season may just rack up in to the millions more than likely 10s of millions. I appreciate the point you're making, but it's clutching at straws. Changing the signage and bus livery would cost what it costs for sure, changing the social media avatars though is literally just getting the new logo and pressing enter. As for the website, ok, maybe some design team does it for a cost, but that's not prohibitive to a multi multi million pound operation like ours. Stationary and branded packaging though? They wont cost any more than they would with a different logo. If we are sat on that much old stock as to make it a noticeable financial loss to replace the old with new then phase it out, have a few weeks of everyone's burger being in the old box or whatever, who cares? Printing the programmes? Literally no extra cost at all, unless we are updating templates on a computer - a few hours work for someone. Quote I’m sure the club own the rights to this logo, it would be too much red tape if they didn’t. But owning the copyright adds a lot of extra cost. Probably more than we care to know. I wouldn’t say Chris Heck dislikes the new badge, but probably doesn’t see it as the right one for global branding. With my branding and marketing hat on, it’s a well put together badge, it’s clean, it’s nice, but it’s generic. It has nothing unique to Aston Villa. It’s a round badge with the same design elements as 5 other premier league clubs. It’s not going to stand out to global investors and fan bases when we look like the rest, in particular bigger clubs like Man City or Chelsea. For Heck/Villa to backtrack on the new logo would take more than a “I don’t like it”. They’re probably concerned about other elements like potentially missing out on deals and revenue, gaining new fans or not truly representing the existing fans. this whole situation is a “balls up” but I’d only say it’s a bulls up in the short term. the club has a rich history and lofty ambitions, let’s use that to create a unique identity. we nail our branding (not just our badge) and communications. The club could really stand out in a busy market. What deals could we possibly miss out on by changing our logo? Why have Man City and Chelsea not lost out on new fans or investors by having a round crest? I don't understand the unique identity stuff at all. Are we suggesting that we change our colours because Burnley, Scunthorpe and West Ham et al decided to copy ours? Apart from the cost of registering the trademark (which we must have already done) what additional costs are there? - and if there are any, wouldn't 2 sets of those costs be more than for just one? As for truly representing the fan-base, there can't be many of us out there who think the Lerner era shield does that better than the new one? Like I said earlier - fair enough, it's not everyone's cup of tea. It could be improved upon. No argument from me there. But I'm baffled. It makes no sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 23 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said: Out of the loop here what's going on with the new badge? They have said the new round badge is now just an homage to 1982 and will only be used on shirts this year and that the horrid Lerner badge remains every where else. They then say that they will monitor local, national and global reactions over the course of the season to determine the next steps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Bloody hell what a cock up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 They dangled a new round badge in front of us for 8 months and then they took it away at the last minute. In 2007 people wanted a round badge and didn't get one. I am sorry but it will take more than a video to get over the disappointment of yesterday 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen_Evans Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 35 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: They have said the new round badge is now just an homage to 1982 and will only be used on shirts this year and that the horrid Lerner badge remains every where else. They then say that they will monitor local, national and global reactions over the course of the season to determine the next steps Let’s hope they’ve monitored some reactions on here… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 56 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said: I appreciate the point you're making, but it's clutching at straws. Changing the signage and bus livery would cost what it costs for sure, changing the social media avatars though is literally just getting the new logo and pressing enter. As for the website, ok, maybe some design team does it for a cost, but that's not prohibitive to a multi multi million pound operation like ours. Stationary and branded packaging though? They wont cost any more than they would with a different logo. If we are sat on that much old stock as to make it a noticeable financial loss to replace the old with new then phase it out, have a few weeks of everyone's burger being in the old box or whatever, who cares? Printing the programmes? Literally no extra cost at all, unless we are updating templates on a computer - a few hours work for someone. What deals could we possibly miss out on by changing our logo? Why have Man City and Chelsea not lost out on new fans or investors by having a round crest? I don't understand the unique identity stuff at all. Are we suggesting that we change our colours because Burnley, Scunthorpe and West Ham et al decided to copy ours? Apart from the cost of registering the trademark (which we must have already done) what additional costs are there? - and if there are any, wouldn't 2 sets of those costs be more than for just one? As for truly representing the fan-base, there can't be many of us out there who think the Lerner era shield does that better than the new one? Like I said earlier - fair enough, it's not everyone's cup of tea. It could be improved upon. No argument from me there. But I'm baffled. It makes no sense to me. All that brake down of the prices and you miss the point. It be a waste of money if the brand doesn’t do what it needs to do. also trivialising the process to a “few hours work” getting the villa brand right is going to take more than a few hours work. It’s going to take another few years. what deals could we miss out on, who knows, that’s the work of our corporate bigwigs. However we not going to gain anymore based up a generic badge Nope, we shouldn’t change our colours. But got to have our own feel, vibe, style, story that’s Aston Villa. All this needs to be shown in how we brand ourselves. When people employ designers to do work for them, a usage licence needs to be agreed upon. A company like villa would have deal to own all intellectual properties to the artwork made, so they can legally do what they want with it. Those rights are expensive, especially if it’s for a multimillion pound company that’s planing to use the artwork for more millions I’m not defending the old logo, I don’t think anyone is… but as it’s already established across everything Villa. They keeping with it as financial and brand backstop until they decide what they’re doing with the overall branding You maybe baffled, we all are.. I’m just talking from my experience in branding. Chris Heck Is a smart man, what he done with the Philly 76ers was brilliant from a design and branding PoV. There’s a cool video on his thread about what he did there. A long process that paid off Edited June 23, 2023 by CarryOnVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 42 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: They dangled a new round badge in front of us for 8 months and then they took it away at the last minute. In 2007 people wanted a round badge and didn't get one. I am sorry but it will take more than a video to get over the disappointment of yesterday From an emotional POV, why are you so upset? Why is a round badge so important to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feidhlim Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 14 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said: From an emotional POV, why are you so upset? Why is a round badge so important to you? Clear to me who has watched the video and those who haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Captain_Townsend said: They dangled a new round badge in front of us for 8 months and then they took it away at the last minute. In 2007 people wanted a round badge and didn't get one. I am sorry but it will take more than a video to get over the disappointment of yesterday This is incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 two nice animated shots of the old badge to open and close the video. It’s like they’re making a point lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted June 23, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 23, 2023 5 hours ago, Risso said: The kit has the new badge with the lion facing right in the traditional place on the front, and the old lion facing left on the back. What an utter shambles. I don’t think it does, I think the 3D renders on the club shop of the shirt are wrong… To be fair it is a shambles, but at least that lion isn’t there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 44 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said: All that brake down of the prices and you miss the point. It be a waste of money if the brand doesn’t do what it needs to do. also trivialising the process to a “few hours work” getting the villa brand right is going to take more than a few hours work. It’s going to take another few years. Not sure if you actually read what I wrote? signing off on printing the programmes (or changing templates) was what I said would take a few hours. Quote what deals could we miss out on, who knows, that’s the work of our corporate bigwigs. However we not going to gain anymore based up a generic badge The reply to your suggestion that it would stop investors investing was more rhetorical, like I said, other successful global football brands seem to do just fine with their round badges without any problems. But it's ok for us to disagree. Quote When people employ designers to do work for them, a usage licence needs to be agreed upon. A company like villa would have deal to own all intellectual properties to the artwork made, so they can legally do what they want with it. Those rights are expensive, especially if it’s for a multimillion pound company that’s planing to use the artwork for more millions This was the crux of my musings this morning, if there's a contractual obligation that's going to cost us millions to change a few avatars and update the digital media side of things then that perhaps changes things, or at least provides something tangeable for us all to understand the reasons behind this decision. A bad deal made by Purslow or whoever for example, especially if the new guy thinks he can get a better financial deal. We can all surely understand why not signing up to a deal for years that would hamper us unnecessarily would show prescience. If that is the case though why not communicate that with us? To spring it on us in the way it was has been a PR nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said: They have said the new round badge is now just an homage to 1982 and will only be used on shirts this year and that the horrid Lerner badge remains every where else. They then say that they will monitor local, national and global reactions over the course of the season to determine the next steps Without knowing what is actually going on, from the outside it looks like amateur hour. Really feels like the club is moving in the right direction on a lot of levels but stuff like this and the uncertainty with the stadium rebuild for example and it feels like the old Villa we've known for ages. Better to get it right than just doing it I guess but without information it feels like a bit of a circus. But still no theme park 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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