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The Strikers


Delphinho123
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Would like to get other peoples opinions on our strikeforce, the options and the Summer window.

I don’t think anyone can argue that both Ings and Watkins are having poor seasons whereas both Davis and Archer are having very good seasons in the Championship. 

So, moving into next season, we’re going to have Ings, Watkins, Davis and Archer on our books. What are the club going to do? 

I actually think we’ll probably go out and buy a top quality striker - I don’t know who that is - because Gerrard is visibly frustrated with both Ings and Watkins (in my opinion) and then we’re left with 5. 

That’s where it gets tricky. Personally, I’d try to shift both Watkins and Ings in the Summer for a combined fee of around £50-60m, and spend that on a top striker. I’d then bring Davis and Archer back to deputise. It sounds mad selling both our current ‘starting’ strikers but it just isn’t clicking up there at all. 

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I have to agree with this.  Watkins especially has missed a lot of chances this season which should have been goals.  There's no point buying someone like Coutinho and not having a 20+ Premier league goals striker in front of him.  Really not sure about Ings, doesn't seem like he's had the chance to play a regular run of games yet but was hoping for more when he signed.  

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Sell Ings and Davis, keep Watkins and Archer. Buy someone of top quality.

No idea who. Darwin Nunez is the trendy name but I haven't seen him play enough to know whether he'd revolutionise our attack

Edited by HalfTimePost
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Cash in on Ings whilst he still has some value. 

I’d also sell Davis in the summer. Great time to get some decent money for him and perhaps include a future sell on?

Keep Archer, with perhaps another loan to a championship club?

Watkins I’d perhaps keep but if he pushed for a move or if a big offer came in, I would let him go. He’s certainly replaceable.

One or perhaps two new strikers in.

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I think Watkins is an excellent striker, he's quick, busy, strong and physical - perfectly suited for a team that play fast breakaway football - we're becoming a team that wants to play patient, possession football with a slower build up and more intricate link play - he's struggling at that - he might be a good player in the wrong place.

I can't say as I've ever got Danny Ings - I know he's a very good finisher and that his movement is good and he's a smart player, but there always seems to be a bit missing for me - I think he's a player who can become a good option off the bench.

I think Davis is excellent, but still to an extent unproven as to whether he can do it at the top level despite his age. He's an odd one in that his ceiling is very high, strikers with his combination of physicality, awareness and technical ability are rare as hens teeth - whether he can get all of that stuff working for him and add goals to it is still a question. I think he's worth keeping just in case, because if he can do what he's done at Forest this season in the Premier league, he could be a brilliant late developer. I'd look to loan him to a lower Premier league team next season.

I think Archer has had a great season, in the summer, I'd have let him go, in his loan at Solihull and the appearances I'd seen him have at U23 level, he'd looked like a player with no chance of making it. Something clicked, either he worked it out, or he worked harder or he physically found it, but he's a completely different animal to the player we had last summer - confident and capable. What we need to do now is figure out whether this is a point in his development, or the best period of his career. I'm not sold on him as being ready to start games in the Premier league, but I've been dumb enough to have wanted to let him go - he's another that would benefit from another loan, perhaps to a lower Premier league side.

Now - that's a problem - I've got one that doesn't fit, one that's a rotational option and two on loan. So we need one, probably two for my money if we want to improve and compete, and that's a lot of money - if we were to spend north of £100m on strikers this summer, it might well affect our ability to spend elsewhere.

So I guess the question is do we go out and buy one and then pick one of the others to try to persist with?

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26 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think Watkins is an excellent striker, he's quick, busy, strong and physical - perfectly suited for a team that play fast breakaway football - we're becoming a team that wants to play patient, possession football with a slower build up and more intricate link play - he's struggling at that - he might be a good player in the wrong place.

I can't say as I've ever got Danny Ings - I know he's a very good finisher and that his movement is good and he's a smart player, but there always seems to be a bit missing for me - I think he's a player who can become a good option off the bench.

I think Davis is excellent, but still to an extent unproven as to whether he can do it at the top level despite his age. He's an odd one in that his ceiling is very high, strikers with his combination of physicality, awareness and technical ability are rare as hens teeth - whether he can get all of that stuff working for him and add goals to it is still a question. I think he's worth keeping just in case, because if he can do what he's done at Forest this season in the Premier league, he could be a brilliant late developer. I'd look to loan him to a lower Premier league team next season.

I think Archer has had a great season, in the summer, I'd have let him go, in his loan at Solihull and the appearances I'd seen him have at U23 level, he'd looked like a player with no chance of making it. Something clicked, either he worked it out, or he worked harder or he physically found it, but he's a completely different animal to the player we had last summer - confident and capable. What we need to do now is figure out whether this is a point in his development, or the best period of his career. I'm not sold on him as being ready to start games in the Premier league, but I've been dumb enough to have wanted to let him go - he's another that would benefit from another loan, perhaps to a lower Premier league side.

Now - that's a problem - I've got one that doesn't fit, one that's a rotational option and two on loan. So we need one, probably two for my money if we want to improve and compete, and that's a lot of money - if we were to spend north of £100m on strikers this summer, it might well affect our ability to spend elsewhere.

So I guess the question is do we go out and buy one and then pick one of the others to try to persist with?

I think this sums up the dilemma we all have with our current strikers, fans, coaches and recruitment staff. The stick or twist conundrum. 
 

The answer? I haven’t got the foggiest but I hope someone at the club has or at least we get lucky. Of all the positions it’s probably the hardest to get right. Torres at Liverpool, world beater, at Chelsea clueless. Peter Withe a journeyman throughout most of his career, for us, unplayable. Glen Hoddle when England manager, I know, I know, didn’t initially see Michael Owen as a natural goal scorer. Strikers can just click or not, their game, to a large extent, is so much dependent on instinct and success or failure very much a fine margins game. 

Edited by DaveAV1
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Keep Archer and Ings as sub strikers, sell the other two and buy a good starting striker. Probelm is that we won't be able to afford or attract anyone better than watkins so we'll probably end up stuck with the same lot of midtable players. 

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52 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

Sell Ings and Davis, keep Watkins and Archer. But someone of top quality.

No idea who. Darwin Nunez is the trendy name but I haven't seen him play enough to know whether he'd revolutionise our attack

I’d basically agree with this. Sell Ings and Davis.

Watkins hasn’t had a great season but can still be an important player, while Archer is more of a pure finisher but still not quite ready so I’d keep but loan him out.

Sign one. Difficult but maybe Schick if we could afford it.

Edited by VillaParkAvenue
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Strikers are currently a headache for most clubs, certainly in this league. It’s not just us.

Spurs are happy Kane is back on form, and Liverpool’s fluid shape works.

But the rest? Chelsea need a striker, Man U need one, Man C don’t even have one, Arsenal desperately need one, Wolves’ striker doesn’t score, West Ham also need one. Still those teams score goals.

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1 hour ago, hippo said:

Sadly we know the chances of archer getting a run in the starting 11 next season are pretty much close to zero.

Yep, loan out the youth, no point having them hanging around if they are not getting a chance

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Get Big Keinan Davis back in, play Ings off him, big man, little man, four-four-facking-two, score sum facking goals.

(I would probably sell Ollie if a profit were on offer, seriously, as I just don't think he's going to work with how we're trying to play.)

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13 minutes ago, picicata said:

Yep, loan out the youth, no point having them hanging around if they are not getting a chance

They should get a chance next season though with 5 subs

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56 minutes ago, villa89 said:

Keep Archer and Ings as sub strikers, sell the other two and buy a good starting striker. Probelm is that we won't be able to afford or attract anyone better than watkins so we'll probably end up stuck with the same lot of midtable players. 

Yep sums up my view.

So I’d probably do the following

Watkins - Sell - At a premium at the moment, not sure he fits Gerrard’s system or style 

Davis - Sell - doesn’t have enough for PL level, doing well at Forest, they’ll pay decent money for him

Ings - Mixed - if a big offer ie similar to what we paid for him then sell but unlikely so keep

Archer - Stay - bring into the squad

Suarez - Buy - experienced, better than what we have for a season.  Fits Gerrard’s style/system

Another - Buy - depending on what happens with Ings, I think there are too many bigger teams in the market for a top striker this summer which might mean we might not be able to get into the market this summer so might be wise to  take a risk on a young quality striker.

So if we could get a top striker in then awesome but probably more likely Suarez, Ings, Archer and another (top young quality striker).

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2 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Would like to get other peoples opinions on our strikeforce, the options and the Summer window.

I don’t think anyone can argue that both Ings and Watkins are having poor seasons whereas both Davis and Archer are having very good seasons in the Championship. 

So, moving into next season, we’re going to have Ings, Watkins, Davis and Archer on our books. What are the club going to do? 

I actually think we’ll probably go out and buy a top quality striker - I don’t know who that is - because Gerrard is visibly frustrated with both Ings and Watkins (in my opinion) and then we’re left with 5. 

That’s where it gets tricky. Personally, I’d try to shift both Watkins and Ings in the Summer for a combined fee of around £50-60m, and spend that on a top striker. I’d then bring Davis and Archer back to deputise. It sounds mad selling both our current ‘starting’ strikers but it just isn’t clicking up there at all. 

I'd be reluctant to sell both in the same window.

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47 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Strikers are currently a headache for most clubs, certainly in this league. It’s not just us.

Spurs are happy Kane is back on form, and Liverpool’s fluid shape works.

But the rest? Chelsea need a striker, Man U need one, Man C don’t even have one, Arsenal desperately need one, Wolves’ striker doesn’t score, West Ham also need one. Still those teams score goals.

Good point, never though about other teams.  Good quality strikers are few and far between.

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  • I'd sell Ings (or trade him to Brighton) if possible. Age, salary and role for the team is not ideal for me. Still think there is a market for him in the PL.
  • Watkins I'd keep unless we get a too good an offer. The Watkins of this season I can do without but still think he can get back to the type of player he was last season.
  • Archer I'd keep around next season at least until January to see how he's developed. If he's not getting any minutes then loan him out in Jan.
  • Davis depends on who we keep and who we sign. He's fairly cheap (I hope) and a academy product so of course I want him to succeed here. But if a offer of over £10m or so comes in I'd be temped. Obviously with a sell on clause or buy back. 

Everything with the caveat that they need to accept their roles at the club.

We need a new starting striker by the looks of it.

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2 hours ago, hippo said:

Sadly we know the chances of archer getting a run in the starting 11 next season are pretty much close to zero.

It's up to Cameron to force Gerrard's hand in preseason by banging them in. 

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  • Watkins.

Sell him, really not been impressed with him this season, and for all his strengths, he simply doesnt suit a possession style of football.

  • Ings.

Sell him, I actually think Ings is a very good all round player, but i also think he doesnt suit leading the line as a lone striker, he doest have the explosive pace to break lines or the power/strength to hold the ball up for over lapping players, he is more of a second striker for me, and again, i dont think that will suit our system.

  • Archer.

I would 100% loan Archer out next season to further his development (like Tammy did with us), i really wouldnt want to see him wasting his development by sitting on the bench 95% of the time, i really want to see him given good development opportunities to see if he can push himself in to our squad for the 23/24 season (will still only be 21 at the start of the 23/24 season), i really dont want to see his development stunted, in the way we did to Davis in his early 20's.

  • Davis.

I would either sell him if we can get a good price, or loan him out for another season to assist his development, and hopefully increase his value, his contact expires July 2024, so we either need to sell this summer or next.

 

  • New Striker(s).

After selling Ings & Watkins, i would try to go big on one top level striker (ie: 35-50m bracket), then maybe buy a backup striker who is older/cheaper, but still good, on a shorter stop gap (1/2/3 year contract), to allow for Archer or others developing.

Edited by MaVilla
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1 hour ago, MaVilla said:
  • Watkins.

Sell him, really not been impressed with him this season, and for all his strengths, he simply doesnt suit a possession style of football.

  • Ings.

Sell him, I actually think Ings is a very good all round player, but i also think he doesnt suit leading the line as a lone striker, he doest have the explosive pace to break lines or the power/strength to hold the ball up for over lapping players, he is more of a second striker for me, and again, i dont think that will suit our system.

  • Archer.

I would 100% loan Archer out next season to further his development (like Tammy did with us), i really wouldnt want to see him wasting his development by sitting on the bench 95% of the time, i really want to see him given good development opportunities to see if he can push himself in to our squad for the 23/24 season (will still only be 21 at the start of the 23/24 season), i really dont want to see his development stunted, in the way we did to Davis in his early 20's.

  • Davis.

I would either sell him if we can get a good price, or loan him out for another season to assist his development, and hopefully increase his value, his contact expires July 2024, so we either need to sell this summer or next.

 

  • New Striker(s).

After selling Ings & Watkins, i would try to go big on one top level striker (ie: 35-50m bracket), then maybe buy a backup striker who is older/cheaper, but still good, on a shorter stop gap (1/2/3 year contract), to allow for Archer or others developing.

So you want to sell our two £30m strikers, and replace them with 1 who is better for roughly the same price?  

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