The Strikers

[Keener window-cleaner]

I think a problem for our strikers is that we dont create that many chances (except the last game). Normally it's the wingers that create the most chances and we don't play with wingers, the delivery from Cash isn't particularly good. One of our front three, now Coutinho, often drops back and contributes in the build up play, and the two no 8 Ramsey and McGinn are good att making runs in to the box, but don't create much quality chances for the strikers. So in essence, no matter what strikers we play, with this formation and these players starting, almost any striker would disappoint imo. If we started playing 4-2-3-1 we would have three players creating chances for the striker, with the full backs backing up. 

 

[MaVilla]

7 minutes ago, duke313 said:

So you want to sell our two £30m strikers, and replace them with 1 who is better for roughly the same price?  

i didnt say it how you worded it, maybe read it again.

[MaVilla]

6 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

I think a problem for our strikers is that we dont create that many chances (except the last game). Normally it's the wingers that create the most chances and we don't play with wingers, the delivery from Cash isn't particularly good. One of our front three, now Coutinho, often drops back and contributes in the build up play, and the two no 8 Ramsey and McGinn are good att making runs in to the box, but don't create much quality chances for the strikers. So in essence, no matter what strikers we play, with this formation and these players starting, almost any striker would disappoint imo. If we started playing 4-2-3-1 we would have three players creating chances for the striker, with the full backs backing up. 

 

tbf this thread is called "the strikers", so its discussing the striker issue, but i think most people would agree we need an entirely new spine to the team, which would hopefully address what you mention re chance creation/general play.

[HalfTimePost]

To be honest I think Watkins would be plenty fine if we had a top level inside forward alongside him. 

Watkins looked great last season for the most part, he didn't really have the best partnership with Grealish but it worked. And Grealish was more of a creator anyway even if he did score a decent number of important goals.

I really feel as though to get the best out of Watkins it would need to be one of Buendia/Coutinho and one speedy player who is direct and can score goals. That player should have been Bailey but it hasn't worked out. 

Effectively, we need:

- a creator to make chances (alongside a creative midfield 3 too) Buendia/Coutinho

- Watkins pulling players out of position and popping up with 12-15goals a season minimum.

- To find the next Son/Mane/Salah. Put one of those three players in our team and we reach the next level and Watkins would be fine for that. Obviously, those players improve any team drastically.

But if we don't want to play that way, if we want to have 2 #10s creating then Ollie needs to be working as hard as he did last season but also needs to be great at holding play up, beating players, out muscling defenders and bringing those #10s into play in positions they can work their magic from.

The trouble is, those players are few and far between. We've only really had Benteke at Villa in my recent memory who got anywhere close to it and his career fell apart afterwards. You're effectively looking for Lukaku, Kane, Drogba, Rooney.

It's not realistic imo.

[Laughable Chimp]

Sell Watkins and sell Ings. Try Bertie up top.

[maqroll]

15 hours ago, HalfTimePost said:

Sell Ings and Davis, keep Watkins and Archer. Buy someone of top quality.

No idea who. Darwin Nunez is the trendy name but I haven't seen him play enough to know whether he'd revolutionise our attack

He'll go to a CL side, not Villa. 

[PaulC]

I think the injuries over his career have caught up with Ings so I would sell him. Watkins I would keep because he is still on the way up. I wouldn't sign Suarez because hes too old and way past his best. Archer should be part of the squad next season. Have no clue who we should sign 

[Dale]

On 15/04/2022 at 10:22, nick76 said:

Suarez - Buy - experienced, better than what we have for a season.  Fits Gerrard’s style/system

Used to be better, can no longer move as quickly as he thinks. Also an absolute rotter, no thanks. 

[TRO]

The problem that the strikers have is, even when we play with wingers, they don't play with any authority....they don't get around the back of the defence, they don't put in threatening crosses and most importantly, they easily become passengers in a game.....thats our wingers.

 The system does come under scrutiny, in many quarters, but both systems with wingers and with wing backs, don't work, and hasn't worked with any consistency all season.

We have failed to score in 7 league games out of 31 under 2 different managers, playing different styles, with different systems.....we have lost 17 games.

I don't think our strikers have proved to be great, but 42 goals for the team, suggests to me, its not that bad either......Wolves in 8th with 33 goals scored.....Arsenal in 6th scored 3 more than us.

I think we maybe be barking up the wrong tree here.

[VillaChris]

On 15/04/2022 at 12:48, Keener window-cleaner said:

I think a problem for our strikers is that we dont create that many chances (except the last game). Normally it's the wingers that create the most chances and we don't play with wingers, the delivery from Cash isn't particularly good. One of our front three, now Coutinho, often drops back and contributes in the build up play, and the two no 8 Ramsey and McGinn are good att making runs in to the box, but don't create much quality chances for the strikers. So in essence, no matter what strikers we play, with this formation and these players starting, almost any striker would disappoint imo. If we started playing 4-2-3-1 we would have three players creating chances for the striker, with the full backs backing up. 

 

I think that's an easy cop out. Last week Coutinho had ridiculous touch and turn that took out 3 Spurs players on halfway line. He then approached box and played a simple pass to Ings...who then miscontrolled and just ran straight into a Spurs defender. We also know Ollie's build up play has gone to pieces this season so many presentable opportunities have been wasted when passing to him aswell.

And Ollie also missed a one on one v Wolves when an inch perfect pass from Young that cut out last defender and keeper so as CF you can't really ask for more than that in a game sometimes. 

[Laughable Chimp]

8 hours ago, TRO said:

The problem that the strikers have is, even when we play with wingers, they don't play with any authority....they don't get around the back of the defence, they don't put in threatening crosses and most importantly, they easily become passengers in a game.....thats our wingers.

 The system does come under scrutiny, in many quarters, but both systems with wingers and with wing backs, don't work, and hasn't worked with any consistency all season.

We have failed to score in 7 league games out of 31 under 2 different managers, playing different styles, with different systems.....we have lost 17 games.

I don't think our strikers have proved to be great, but 42 goals for the team, suggests to me, its not that bad either......Wolves in 8th with 33 goals scored.....Arsenal in 6th scored 3 more than us.

I think we maybe be barking up the wrong tree here.

That's partly because our strikers aren't that poor scoring and also because the rest of our team chip in with goals too. Ramsey, Coutinho and Mcginn and even Cash are all capable of scoring goals in their own right.

 

[Delphinho123]

4 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

That's partly because our strikers aren't that poor scoring and also because the rest of our team chip in with goals too. Ramsey, Coutinho and Mcginn and even Cash are all capable of scoring goals in their own right.

 

I actually think our system somewhat shackles the midfielders - especially when it comes to scoring goals. I’m surprised Ramsey has as many goals as he does this season. 

Both McGinn and Ramsey are asked to fill in at fullback when Digne and Cash bomb on, meaning they can’t get forward as much as they’d like. 

Im not sure I’d enjoy being a midfielder in this current set up tbh.

[RicRic]

15 hours ago, TRO said:

The problem that the strikers have is, even when we play with wingers, they don't play with any authority....they don't get around the back of the defence, they don't put in threatening crosses and most importantly, they easily become passengers in a game.....thats our wingers.

 The system does come under scrutiny, in many quarters, but both systems with wingers and with wing backs, don't work, and hasn't worked with any consistency all season.

We have failed to score in 7 league games out of 31 under 2 different managers, playing different styles, with different systems.....we have lost 17 games.

I don't think our strikers have proved to be great, but 42 goals for the team, suggests to me, its not that bad either......Wolves in 8th with 33 goals scored.....Arsenal in 6th scored 3 more than us.

I think we maybe be barking up the wrong tree here.

Its all about progression , we are unable to convert the majority of our chances, some on here want a 20+ plus goals a season striker which not even Manchester City have on there roster , its more looking for that 14+ goal a season forward but having that second striker chip in with 9/10 similar to the top teams. Sell Ings and Davis but keep Watkins and Archer and bring in the likes of someone similar to Darwin Nunez . Sell Bailey, Traore,Trezeguet,Buendia, El Ghazi and bring in a Winger along with Bissouma and a Top CB like Ginter and sign Coutinho permanently and we would be then a side capable of moving to that next level 

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, RicRic said:

Its all about progression , we are unable to convert the majority of our chances, some on here want a 20+ plus goals a season striker which not even Manchester City have on there roster , its more looking for that 14+ goal a season forward but having that second striker chip in with 9/10 similar to the top teams. Sell Ings and Davis but keep Watkins and Archer and bring in the likes of someone similar to Darwin Nunez . Sell Bailey, Traore,Trezeguet,Buendia, El Ghazi and bring in a Winger along with Bissouma and a Top CB like Ginter and sign Coutinho permanently and we would be then a side capable of moving to that next level 

If you check the goalscoring chart in the top 10 only Kane and Toney I would consider out and out strikers 

Most teams get goals now from the wide players 

[TRO]

11 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

I actually think our system somewhat shackles the midfielders - especially when it comes to scoring goals. I’m surprised Ramsey has as many goals as he does this season. 

Both McGinn and Ramsey are asked to fill in at fullback when Digne and Cash bomb on, meaning they can’t get forward as much as they’d like. 

Im not sure I’d enjoy being a midfielder in this current set up tbh.

I'm not sure, I would would enjoy, being a player in this squad, in any dep't.

[CVByrne]

Are Ollie and Ings really doing as bad as people think this season?

Ollie is on 0.31 goals per 90 compared to 0.38 last season when we had Grealish and created more chances. While Ings has become more a creator of goals (G+A per 90 is .56 vs 0.66 last season) and his defensive stats are absolutely outstanding. 

If we have a 3rd CF in there to push competition and give us someone off the bench and the team behind them gets fixed they can do well next season I'm sure. They will do better next season. 

[Mark Albrighton]

So where are we at with the strikers? Things seem to have picked up - with the acknowledgment that the quality of recent opposition has been towards the lower end of the table.

Keep both Ings and Watkins while adding another to keep them on their toes? Loan Archer out again? 

Keep one of the senior strikers, sell them other, bring one and have Archer in and around the squad?

I like both Watkins and Ings. I think a lot of clubs would want them as options. I’m not 100% sure they’re the strikers to help us make that rather huge step up (which let’s say is not being the best of the rest, but being the worst of the “top clubs”, kinda like West Ham at the moment I guess). On their day they are, maybe with a few additions elsewhere and then getting used to the new set up, their day will be more of a regular occurrence.

But then buying a new striker who we hope is going to score 15 goals+…that’s likely to be expensive. Should a large amount of the funds go towards it? How much could we realistically receive for either Watkins or Ings? Will they be able to play alongside with whomever remains if we’re going with two up top? Will one of those be happy playing second fiddle when we don’t? 

tl;dr - I just don’t know 

[VillaParkAvenue]

3 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

So where are we at with the strikers? Things seem to have picked up - with the acknowledgment that the quality of recent opposition has been towards the lower end of the table.

Keep both Ings and Watkins while adding another to keep them on their toes? Loan Archer out again? 

Keep one of the senior strikers, sell them other, bring one and have Archer in and around the squad?

I like both Watkins and Ings. I think a lot of clubs would want them as options. I’m not 100% sure they’re the strikers to help us make that rather huge step up (which let’s say is not being the best of the rest, but being the worst of the “top clubs”, kinda like West Ham at the moment I guess). On their day they are, maybe with a few additions elsewhere and then getting used to the new set up, their day will be more of a regular occurrence.

But then buying a new striker who we hope is going to score 15 goals+…that’s likely to be expensive. Should a large amount of the funds go towards it? How much could we realistically receive for either Watkins or Ings? Will they be able to play alongside with whomever remains if we’re going with two up top? Will one of those be happy playing second fiddle when we don’t? 

tl;dr - I just don’t know 

Depends on if we want to play with one or two strikers, but Watkins and Ings are looking better together by the week. Changing one of them could also lead to a new period of players having to get settled.

I don’t see our strikers as a real problem, other parts of the team need investing in.

[Thug]

Danny Ings has consistently been one of the best strikers in the premier league.

It can take a little while for someone to bed in.

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, Thug said:

Danny Ings has consistently been one of the best strikers in the premier league.

It can take a little while for someone to bed in.

I think Ings minutes are less than 20 full games and has 13 goal contributions. Has been a disgrace he has not been used as much