The Strikers

[Sulberto21]

What’s this Raphael Veiga like from Brazil? Heard he’s mint.

[duke313]

3 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

What’s this Raphael Veiga like from Brazil? Heard he’s mint.

Aside from the fact he isn't a striker?

[Sulberto21]

4 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Aside from the fact he isn't a striker?

Get him in! What’s better than 2 number 10’s? 3 number 10’s!

Edited May 12, 2022 by Sulberto21

[Villatillidie95]

fairly happy with the strikers, Ings will have a better year next season without a doubt and also has a couple of home games left to score a few more, ditto watkins. Make use of archer next year and integrate him a bit with the first team, I think we are good up top. If we are looking to improve the forward line then we should look to see who can play in the positions either side of the striker. Cornet would be a decent signing from Burnley, good intelligent player with pace to burn and capable of scoring double figures. if we aren't going to use the wingers then get rid of them and bring those types of inside forward players in.

Would not sell Watkins to West Ham, him and bowen would tear it up and both get in the england squad probably

[duke313]

53 minutes ago, Villatillidie95 said:

fairly happy with the strikers, Ings will have a better year next season without a doubt and also has a couple of home games left to score a few more, ditto watkins. Make use of archer next year and integrate him a bit with the first team, I think we are good up top. If we are looking to improve the forward line then we should look to see who can play in the positions either side of the striker. Cornet would be a decent signing from Burnley, good intelligent player with pace to burn and capable of scoring double figures. if we aren't going to use the wingers then get rid of them and bring those types of inside forward players in.

Would not sell Watkins to West Ham, him and bowen would tear it up and both get in the england squad probably

Let's hope so, as they have both been very wasteful this season.  No point having players like Coutinho and Buendia creating chances if your strikers couldn't hit a barn door.  But I agree about not selling Watkins, especially to a direct rival in West Ham.

Edited May 12, 2022 by duke313

[Zatman]

On 11/05/2022 at 13:39, duke313 said:

I think people just think if we spend £60-70m on a striker all our goal scoring worries will be over, and that player will bang in 20+ goals.  

20 goal players are hard to find. In the last 3 seasons has been done just 8 times in the Premier League. Salah twice, Son, Kane, Vardy, Aubameyang, Sterling and Ings

Only Salah there more than once shows how difficult it is to find that player and Ings is the only one to do it at a midtable team 

[Steero113]

22 minutes ago, Zatman said:

20 goal players are hard to find. In the last 3 seasons has been done just 8 times in the Premier League. Salah twice, Son, Kane, Vardy, Aubameyang, Sterling and Ings

Only Salah there more than once shows how difficult it is to find that player and Ings is the only one to do it at a midtable team 

So much this. 

People wanting to "upgrade" on Ings and Watkins need a dose of realism. There are world class players that have come and gone in the last few seasons in this league that haven't gotten close to 20 goals a season. 

 

[CVByrne]

The game has moved on. Your centre forwards are not scoring as many goals in this era as they used to. Harry Kane has 16 goals this season including a load of penalties. 

It's about goal contributions now. Goals  + Assists for the forwards so there is a collective. Ings is on 13 and Watkins on 12 in terms of goal contributions. Which isn't too bad for a team in 14th place. Ideally they should be closer to 20 apiece. 

Ings is 7 G+A in last 10 games. Watkins is 6 goals in last 12 games. That's the output since Gerrard put them together up top which is very positive, that's more than an average of 0.6 goal contributions each per 90 as a partnership. Over a season that averages out at 23 each. 

So the numbers they're positing now is very good. I feel if the attacking plays are more evolved next season with the supporting players they'll do better.

[messi11]

Top Tier PL Strikers- Kane, Son, Salah, Mane, Ronaldo, Vardy, 
Just below top Tier PL Strikers: Watkins, Ings, Antonio, Jesus
Potential: Toney

We have possible have 2 of the best strikers outside the top 7. That's with Ronaldo and Vardy close to retirement age. I don't really know in our position how we can improve on them? 

Edited May 18, 2022 by messi11

[ciggiesnbeer]

5 minutes ago, messi11 said:

Top Tier PL Strikers- Kane, Son, Salah, Mane, Ronaldo, Vardy, 
Just below top Tier PL Strikers: Watkins, Ings, Antonio, Jesus
Potential: Toney

We have possible have 2 of the best strikers outside the top 7. That's with Ronaldo and Vardy close to retirement age. I don't really know in our position how we can improve on them? 

Very good point. Given how flakey strikers tend to be we have been incredibly lucky with Ollie & Ings.

As you say, who could we get who is a proven PL striker and how much would he cost? Realistically the best PL striker we could probably get right now without breaking the bank is Pukki. Who would be sat on the bench waiting for Ollie or Ings to get injured.

Better imho to improve the supply lines to our already good forwards and build from there.

 

[Spoony]

Would be hesitant to sell Ings but he has been poor the last couple of games and the only thing he is meant to be able to do is finish. It’s a shame as he was hitting his stride but I wouldn’t dismiss him just yet. Don’t see the point in selling him with little resell value. 

[Villaphan04]

17 hours ago, Steero113 said:

So much this. 

People wanting to "upgrade" on Ings and Watkins need a dose of realism. There are world class players that have come and gone in the last few seasons in this league that haven't gotten close to 20 goals a season. 

 

Completely agree with this. There just aren't that many 'world-class' strikers at scoring in the world at the minute (the 2 who are that are not even going to consider us - for good reason)  Just looking through the squads, I think Spurs -- and if you want to count Liverpool, even though they just bought an "attacker" that rotates up top -- are the only PL teams that don't need to buy a "proper goal scoring striker". 

 

18 hours ago, Zatman said:

20 goal players are hard to find. In the last 3 seasons has been done just 8 times in the Premier League. Salah twice, Son, Kane, Vardy, Aubameyang, Sterling and Ings

Only Salah there more than once shows how difficult it is to find that player and Ings is the only one to do it at a midtable team 

and how many of those are "proper strikers"? 4 of those are, Salah, Son, Sterling are more wide forwards who get into goal scoring positions

[TheAuthority]

5 hours ago, messi11 said:

Top Tier PL Strikers- Kane, Son, Salah, Mane, Ronaldo, Vardy, 
Just below top Tier PL Strikers: Watkins, Ings, Antonio, Jesus
Potential: Toney

We have possible have 2 of the best strikers outside the top 7. That's with Ronaldo and Vardy close to retirement age. I don't really know in our position how we can improve on them? 

Suarez

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[duke313]

6 hours ago, Villaphan04 said:

and how many of those are "proper strikers"? 4 of those are, Salah, Son, Sterling are more wide forwards who get into goal scoring positions

The modern definition of a 'striker' has changed.  While Salah, Son and Sterling are not traditional centre forwards, they are forwards who's job is to score goals.

[VillaChris]

What would ease the burden is either a midfielder or wide player getting double figures.

Let's remember we had our best season last year for ages with El Ghazi hitting double figures so think everyone assumed Bailey would be that guy this season but been miles off it.

If he can get fit I'd like to think he can get 8-10 next season.

Ramsey has pretty much hit that figure this season so he's taken over from McGinn as the goal threat from central areas.

Ultimately we just don't score enough v higher ranked teams. O.k scoring 2s and 3s v Burnley, Leeds and Norwich but since Feb we've played Newcastle, West Ham, Arsenal, Spurs and Wolves. Two goals scored so simply not going to get enough points unless we score more v those teams to finish above some of them.

[DaveAV1]

15 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Let's remember we had our best season last year for ages with El Ghazi hitting double figures so think everyone assumed Bailey would be that guy this season but been miles off it.

That’s very true, we bought Bailey in the hope he was capable of creating problems for defenders with his pace and add plenty of goals and assists. His injuries have ruined his season and so as fans it’s difficult to assess him. Hopefully the club have a better view and can decide if he has a future here or needs replacing. Either way it would be hard to get a decent fee for him at the moment so he probably stays, at least this summer, unless we get a big offer out of the blue. 

[CVByrne]

33 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

What would ease the burden is either a midfielder or wide player getting double figures.

Let's remember we had our best season last year for ages with El Ghazi hitting double figures so think everyone assumed Bailey would be that guy this season but been miles off it.

If he can get fit I'd like to think he can get 8-10 next season.

Ramsey has pretty much hit that figure this season so he's taken over from McGinn as the goal threat from central areas.

Ultimately we just don't score enough v higher ranked teams. O.k scoring 2s and 3s v Burnley, Leeds and Norwich but since Feb we've played Newcastle, West Ham, Arsenal, Spurs and Wolves. Two goals scored so simply not going to get enough points unless we score more v those teams to finish above some of them.

Well this season we got 3 penalties vs the 6 we got last season. AEG score 5 of those 6 last season.

I think an issue for us this season when we had 2 10s and 1 CF was it was great defensively, packing the middle of the park meant we were more solid and our goals against under Gerrard is 1.15 goals per game. Which is better than last seasons 1.21 goals per game in the season our defence and Martinez were lauded and we equalled our clean sheet record.

This defensive solidity has come at the cost of front 3. We've only Watkins and Ings in double figures for goal contributions this season, when last season we had 4 players (Jack, Bert, AEG, Watkins). Since we've move to two strikers and one 10 we've seen an increase in our goal contributions more to a level that would see us do well over a full season.

Once we add in goal scorers on the bench, Archer + Suarez maybe? We have more of a threat.

Edited May 18, 2022 by CVByrne

[duke313]

1 minute ago, CVByrne said:

Well this season we got 3 penalties vs the 6 we got last season. AEG score 5 of those 6 last season.

I think an issue for us this season when we had 2 10s and 1 CF was it was great defensively, packing the middle of the park meant we were more solid and our goals against under Gerrard is 1.15 goals per game. Which is better than last seasons 1.21 goals per game in the season our defence and Martinez were lauded and we equalled our clean sheet record.

This defensive solidity has come at the cost of front 3. We've only Watkins and Ings in double figures for goal contributions this season, when last season we had 4 players (Jack, Bert, AEG, Watkins). Since we've move to two strikers and one 10 we've seen an increase in our goal contributions more to a level that would see us do well over a full season.

Once we add in goal scorers on the bench, Archer + Suarez maybe? We have more of a threat.

We've lost our goal threat from out wide, as the full-backs are not providing the goals we would have got from wide forwards, so we are relaying on goals from the strikers and central midfield areas.

[CVByrne]

1 minute ago, duke313 said:

We've lost our goal threat from out wide, as the full-backs are not providing the goals we would have got from wide forwards, so we are relaying on goals from the strikers and central midfield areas.

Exactly, it's taken time for the full backs to get into the groove of the system but we're seeing how good Digne and Cash are now and both have contributed well in their last 12 starts, with a combined 7 G+A between them. That's 0.3 goal contributions between them and we know Digne has a couple of 2nd assists too. 

The other issue is we've asked McGinn to play a bit more reserved and help Luiz out defensively, this is to allow JJ to get forward more. Once we have that right balance and a CDM that the team trusts and rely upon we'll see more attacking play from the 8s in general. This simply creates more space for other players too, including the front 3 (10s and CFs).

[duke313]

1 minute ago, CVByrne said:

Exactly, it's taken time for the full backs to get into the groove of the system but we're seeing how good Digne and Cash are now and both have contributed well in their last 12 starts, with a combined 7 G+A between them. That's 0.3 goal contributions between them and we know Digne has a couple of 2nd assists too. 

The other issue is we've asked McGinn to play a bit more reserved and help Luiz out defensively, this is to allow JJ to get forward more. Once we have that right balance and a CDM that the team trusts and rely upon we'll see more attacking play from the 8s in general. This simply creates more space for other players too, including the front 3 (10s and CFs).

This is why I think we need two #6 this summer, and out and out #6 to replace Nakamba, and a #6/8 like Bissouma who can replace McGinn, allowing JJ to bomb up and down.