Summer Transfer Window 2022

[Philosopher]

8 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Its really not

Last summer at the Euros most of the best players played in that shitty Italian league including 9 starters in the final vs the might of the Premier League the greatest league ever

 

How times has an Italian team been in the last 8 of the champions league in the last 3 seasons? The Serie A isn't a top league anymore. To me ligue 1 and Serie A are at the same level. Little separating them. 

[duke313]

18 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

Huge flaw in this idea. You are looking at Liverpool as it exist currently. They didn't start there. Here's how old each player was when they signed them:

Salah - 24

Mane - 24

VVD - 26

Henderson - 20

Robertson - 23

Fabinho - 24

Matip - 24

I could go on but you see the trend. Liverpool's window with their current roster has been open for 4 years now. They probably still have a nother year or 2 before they need to start rebuilding. Our window is going to be much smaller. 2 seasons at best. If we miss then there isn't any do over. Will be the new Everton if we get it really wrong.  No one is taking 30+ year old players off our hand for anything close to what we paid for them. The risk is huge. Old team, small window of success and a manager with half a season of PL experience. The risk/reward here is massive. It could go right but oh man it could also go really, really wrong. 

Hit the nail on the head.  Using the Liverpool example, they sign players just before they hit their prime, and are reaping the rewards of having them before, during and after their prime.  Ideally we should be signing players in the 23-26 age bracket, who are first team ready now.  Means they are old enough for first team and can still improve.  

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

How times has an Italian team been in the last 8 of the champions league in the last 3 seasons? The Serie A isn't a top league anymore. To me ligue 1 and Serie A are at the same level. Little separating them. 

Liverpool struggled past Inter Milan in the Champions League because of a dodgy refereeing decision and they are apparently the best team in the world.

The Premier League top goal scorer didnt get nearly as many as he did in Italy as he did in the Premier League

European trophies this season which is the real indicator of the league quality will have them tying with the the mighty Premier League

[CarryOnVilla]

Just now, duke313 said:

Hit the nail on the head.  Using the Liverpool example, they sign players just before they hit their prime, and are reaping the rewards of having them before, during and after their prime.  Ideally we should be signing players in the 23-26 age bracket, who are first team ready now.  Means they are old enough for first team and can still improve.  

[Tomaszk]

23 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

Huge flaw in this idea. You are looking at Liverpool as it exist currently. They didn't start there. Here's how old each player was when they signed them:

Salah - 24

Mane - 24

VVD - 26

Henderson - 20

Robertson - 23

Fabinho - 24

Matip - 24

I could go on but you see the trend. Liverpool's window with their current roster has been open for 4 years now. They probably still have a nother year or 2 before they need to start rebuilding. Our window is going to be much smaller. 2 seasons at best. If we miss then there isn't any do over. Will be the new Everton if we get it really wrong.  No one is taking 30+ year old players off our hand for anything close to what we paid for them. The risk is huge. Old team, small window of success and a manager with half a season of PL experience. The risk/reward here is massive. It could go right but oh man it could also go really, really wrong. 

One day, all clubs will learn this.

I thought we were pretty close, alas.

[Philosopher]

25 minutes ago, TRO said:

Player development relies on having players around who have been there done it got the tea shirt.......SG can't be on hand for everyone.....learning is contagious and players like Suarez can be influential, to have around.

Suarez for 12 months, would be invaluable imo......I don't see him playing every game, but to be used sparingly at crucial times.....I see his presence having a real value on our squad and younger players learning from him.

We have no mentor, for the strikers to learn from, but I will go with the clubs decision.

Not convinced it works like this most of the time.  Man U had Ronadlo and Cavani or the last 2 seasons, I have noticed any improvements in Martial, Rashford, and Greenwood. Aguero didn't teach Jesus how to be a world class striker. 

Coaches coach players. Players don't. They may give young lads a little tip now and then, but ultimately the cream rise to the top. If we had Van Basten coaching our strikers would we need a veteran striker to do it? If we want our young players to learn from the best, we have to get the best coaches.

Suarez Wants to leave Athletico because he wants to play, Cavani is discontent because he isn't playing. Do you really think Suarez wants to sit on the bench and teach Watkin how to be a top striker?

[Philosopher]

30 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

Huge flaw in this idea. You are looking at Liverpool as it exist currently. They didn't start there. Here's how old each player was when they signed them:

Salah - 24

Mane - 24

VVD - 26

Henderson - 20

Robertson - 23

Fabinho - 24

Matip - 24

I could go on but you see the trend. Liverpool's window with their current roster has been open for 4 years now. They probably still have a nother year or 2 before they need to start rebuilding. Our window is going to be much smaller. 2 seasons at best. If we miss then there isn't any do over. Will be the new Everton if we get it really wrong.  No one is taking 30+ year old players off our hand for anything close to what we paid for them. The risk is huge. Old team, small window of success and a manager with half a season of PL experience. The risk/reward here is massive. It could go right but oh man it could also go really, really wrong. 

This is spot on. However this also necessitates keeping hold of those players. What happens for a team outside the top 5 is most of those leave when a champions league team shows interest. 

You have to match this with success on the pitch. Then you can keep hoovering up young talent. We need to get our foot in the door of the European places, then we can attract better 23 - 25 year olds. 

[VillaHatesMe]

36 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

At best on the level of ligue 1 is what I said. The Portuguese league is almost at Serie A's level.

Using 538's SPI metric, which is a predictive metric used for gambling that measures the individual strength of teams, here are the average SPI ratings of the six leagues you've mentioned.

Premier League: 72.97
Spain: 69.97
Bundesliga: 69.27
Serie A: 63.42
Ligue 1: 60.54
Portugal: 52.05

There's a sizable gap between the top three and Serie A, but there's also a significant gap between Serie A and France, and a much larger between all of them and Portugal.

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Not convinced it works like this most of the time.  Man U had Ronadlo and Cavani or the last 2 seasons, I have noticed any improvements in Martial, Rashford, and Greenwood. Aguero didn't teach Jesus how to be a world class striker. 

Coaches coach players. Players don't. They may give young lads a little tip now and then, but ultimately the cream rise to the top. If we had Van Basten coaching our strikers would we need a veteran striker to do it? If we want our young players to learn from the best, we have to get the best coaches.

Suarez Wants to leave Athletico because he wants to play, Cavani is discontent because he isn't playing. Do you really think Suarez wants to sit on the bench and teach Watkin how to be a top striker?

No.

But do I think interested parties like Watkins or Archer, would be refused help if asked?....I say No to that too.....I think Suarez would be delighted and humbled to be asked.

Its the environment that breeds this sort of thing,in addition to formal coaching,  I think you are taking it a bit too literally.

Good players improve, playing with good players, its a known view, in most sports.

I used to play a non team sport.....and playing with better players improves you................if you want to learn?

I am not suggesting a player like Suarez, will double up as a coach, but his work will be studied, by those players who are interested in improving their game, in the day to day rigours of training.

 

[Philosopher]

1 minute ago, VillaHatesMe said:

Using 538's SPI metric, which is a predictive metric used for gambling that measures the individual strength of teams, here are the average SPI ratings of the six leagues you've mentioned.

Premier League: 72.97
Spain: 69.97
Bundesliga: 69.27
Serie A: 63.42
Ligue 1: 60.54
Portugal: 52.05

There's a sizable gap between the top three and Serie A, but there's also a significant gap between Serie A and France, and a much larger between all of them and Portugal.

Doesn't seem to be a big gap between ligue 1 and Serie A to me. It's smaller than the difference between the Prem and Spain. Portugal is a ways off though granted.

[Zatman]

15 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

One day, all clubs will learn this.

I thought we were pretty close, alas.

Yeah this is what I signed up for under Lange and Purslow. Why I am so downhearted with the project

[Laughable Chimp]

I don't really care about their ages. To me, it's all about getting the best value for money. In that sense, older players should  cost less to be worthwhile due to their lack of resale value, but that doesn't mean we should turn our noses from older players entirely. If there's an opportunity to get an older veteran on the cheap who can still play, we should take it. Not every signing has to be a 30 million punt for some young up and coming and talent who may never even reach their potential.

[duke313]

2 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Doesn't seem to be a big gap between ligue 1 and Serie A to me. It's smaller than the difference between the Prem and Spain. Portugal is a ways off though granted.

It's possible PSG is skewing those figures slightly?

[Rustibrooks]

2 hours ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

I REALLY want us to sign someone like Evan Ndicka. He'd be awesome. 22, 1 year left on his contract I think. European experience. 6' 4"

20-25m I reckon.

 

Eintracht Frankfurt signed Jerome Onguene as well so all signs point to him leaving them this summer potentially. Would be a nice signing.

[NoelVilla]

28 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I don't really care about their ages. To me, it's all about getting the best value for money. In that sense, older players should  cost less to be worthwhile due to their lack of resale value, but that doesn't mean we should turn our noses from older players entirely. If there's an opportunity to get an older veteran on the cheap who can still play, we should take it. Not every signing has to be a 30 million punt for some young up and coming and talent who may never even reach their potential.

Totally agree. A veteran with the right attitude and price could be invaluable for a squad. A mix of ages is preferred. It's when you pay too high for the veterans you get in trouble IMO.

[Philosopher]

14 minutes ago, duke313 said:

It's possible PSG is skewing those figures slightly?

The money going into football in Spain, Italy and France has been drying up in recent years and PSG are the only exception. So in that you could say that. However they are a French team so the figures are genuine none the less.

As long as the current situation maintains the prem will gradually increase the gap between us and the rest. The French league is actually doing quite well in this as they sell more players to the prem then the other leagues. Plus PSG and their owners have made ligue 1 more marketable. That's why ligue 1 is closing in on Serie A.

[Pez1974]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Player development relies on having players around who have been there done it got the tea shirt.......SG can't be on hand for everyone.....learning is contagious and players like Suarez can be influential, to have around.

Suarez for 12 months, would be invaluable imo......I don't see him playing every game, but to be used sparingly at crucial times.....I see his presence having a real value on our squad and younger players learning from him.

We have no mentor, for the strikers to learn from, but I will go with the clubs decision.

I am going round in circles on this one - and of course it depends on which Luis Suarez comes.

If he could do a job - start a few, and be a sub (5 subs next year?) for the season - he could be amazing.
But would he want that? And the wages mentioned (£150k a week?) for the kind of minutes we've seen from Young this season, sounds like a lot. 

Plus...we have Watkins and Ings; we need to let Archer develop (again - is Suarez great for this, or a hinderance?). And then there's Keinan Davis who Gerrard seems to keep saying is a key squad member (personally, I think he's going to Forest in the summer, hopefully for a good wedge as they've been promoted).
I think for Suarez to come in - one of Watkins or Ings may have to leave. We usually play 1 up top, and we'd have 5 people vying for that spot unless we sell. 

I trust the recruitment team - and I'm glad I do as I have no idea what to make of this one. 

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, Pez1974 said:

I am going round in circles on this one - and of course it depends on which Luis Suarez comes.

If he could do a job - start a few, and be a sub (5 subs next year?) for the season - he could be amazing.
But would he want that? And the wages mentioned (£150k a week?) for the kind of minutes we've seen from Young this season, sounds like a lot. 

Plus...we have Watkins and Ings; we need to let Archer develop (again - is Suarez great for this, or a hinderance?). And then there's Keinan Davis who Gerrard seems to keep saying is a key squad member (personally, I think he's going to Forest in the summer, hopefully for a good wedge as they've been promoted).
I think for Suarez to come in - one of Watkins or Ings may have to leave. We usually play 1 up top, and we'd have 5 people vying for that spot unless we sell. 

I trust the recruitment team - and I'm glad I do as I have no idea what to make of this one. 

of course.

[HKP90]

54 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Hit the nail on the head.  Using the Liverpool example, they sign players just before they hit their prime, and are reaping the rewards of having them before, during and after their prime.  Ideally we should be signing players in the 23-26 age bracket, who are first team ready now.  Means they are old enough for first team and can still improve.  

True, but at Villa unless they immediately start tearing up the Premier League, a lot of supporters call them shit and demand that they're sold. 

There is never enough patience at the club to allow long term builds. 

Konsa, Hause, Cash, Luiz, Bailey, Traore, and Ollie are all 26 or younger right now, and at some points this season I've heard calls for all of them to be upgraded or sold, rather than developing them. 

You cannot tell me all of those players have reached their peak.  

[TRO]

1 minute ago, HKP90 said:

True, but at Villa unless they immediately start tearing up the Premier League, a lot of supporters call them shit and demand that they're sold. 

There is never enough patience at the club to allow long term builds. 

Konsa, Hause, Cash, Luiz, Bailey, Traore, and Ollie are all 26 or younger right now, and at some points this season I've heard calls for all of them to be upgraded or sold, rather than developing them. 

You cannot tell me all of those players have reached their peak.  

but some plateau or regress.....development is not a defined trajectory.