ender4 Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Sounds just like Man City and PSG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 Hopefully they limit their car development so it will result in other teams catching up to them so we can get more competitive racing next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted October 11, 2022 Author Moderator Share Posted October 11, 2022 FIA need to be transparent. Come out and tell us what the breach was. "Less than 5%". Ok. How much less. Be **** transparent. And Red Bull need to come out and say exactly why they think that's wrong. Put your cards on the table. And if you're talking bullshit then it's a points deduction. At this point it just stinks of an FIA who don't want to reveal the fact that the breach needs a points deduction because of the mess it will cause. Do the right thing whatever that right thing is. And it's still possible that this incompetent governing body have **** up too. That's why we need the transparency. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 What they have also failed to do is tie the penalty to offence from the beginning. It takes a lot of this rubbis away. Eg. If it’s upto 5% overspend then it’s 5% of your points or 10 points, whatever is larger. Something like that. Then if you’re found guilty the punishment is automatically applied, no discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 11, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2022 Yeah it smells like a team deliberately spending over their budget, but less than 5% because they know the punishment wouldn't be severe enough to seriously effect them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Genie said: What they have also failed to do is tie the penalty to offence from the beginning. It takes a lot of this rubbis away. Eg. If it’s upto 5% overspend then it’s 5% of your points or 10 points, whatever is larger. Something like that. Then if you’re found guilty the punishment is automatically applied, no discussion. the problem is, 5% of your points doesnt reflect that up to 5% overspend, 5% can effectively be a similar cost to an entire years research & development budget, Martin Brundle said it would be enough for a team to effectively develop a B spec car alongside their main car. this kind of overspend would effectively give a team a huge head start for a given season in terms of car development, but then this headstart would carry over to multiple years as all the other teams are now far, far behind in car development, ie: even if you stopped Red Bulls development entirely for a year, some teams might still not have caught up after 12 months in terms of car development. Im not saying this is what happened, but a team could say, we will take a fine for a 5% overspend, becuase we know that development headstart will help us for multiple years, its worth taking the fine. Its a huge, massive red flag and has effectively put Red Bulls car development on an entirely different level to the other teams. its corrupt. Edited October 11, 2022 by MaVilla 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 minute ago, MaVilla said: the problem is, 5% of your points doesnt reflect that up to 5% overspend, 5% can effectively be a similar cost to an entire years research & development budget, Martin Brundle said it would be enough for a team to effectively develop a B spec car alongside their main car. this kind of overspend would effectively give a team a huge head start for a given season in terms of car development, but then this headstart would carry over to multiple years as all the other teams are now far, far behind in car development, ie: even if you stopped Red Bulls development entirely for a year, some teams might still not have caught up after 12 months in terms of car development. Im not saying this is what happened, but a team could say, we will take a fine for a 5% overspend, becuase we know that development headstart will help us for multiple years, its worth taking the fine. Its a huge, massive red flag and has effectively put Red Bulls car development on an entirely different level to the other teams. You make excellent points, my point was mainly that the punishment should have been written at the same time as the rules. They’ve spent an extra load of months arguing behind the scenes and finally concluded they broke the rules. What now? A few more months arguing (or negotiating) what the punishment should be? Bringing in a new rule without also publishing what the punishment for breaching it would be shows just how poorly run F1 is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 12 minutes ago, Genie said: You make excellent points, my point was mainly that the punishment should have been written at the same time as the rules. They’ve spent an extra load of months arguing behind the scenes and finally concluded they broke the rules. What now? A few more months arguing (or negotiating) what the punishment should be? Bringing in a new rule without also publishing what the punishment for breaching it would be shows just how poorly run F1 is. ye you are right i think. The worst case scenario now imo, is Red Bull get a slap on the wrist/fine only, then the rules are tightened and any future breaches by anyone is come down on hard. Thats terrible imo, as then Red Bull will have had all the benefits of breaking the rules, with limited/if any come back, where as all others in the future wont be allowed to do the same. It would be completely unfair. I think maybe, and im just spit balling, if Red Bull "only" get a fine/slap on the wrist, all other teams next season should be given the same monetary value that Red Bull have overspent by, to add to their development budget so they can do development over and above the norm, it still wont be fair as Red Bull still have the early development from overspend, but its better than nothing. If Red Bull get away with this, it will call the sports fairness in to question imo. I have a feeling Red Bull will get away with it though, and if they do the cry of "F1 is corrupt" will be a fair comment. The only thing that i think might lead to something, is that Ferrari are on the good side of the fence with this one (after some dodgy stuff over recent years), and Ferrari are probably the most powerful team politically (in terms of participation value to F1 as a business model), so if they cry foul, maybe...maybe, something could happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 3 hours ago, MaVilla said: If Red Bull get away with this, it will call the sports fairness in to question imo. I think that’s already in place following last yrs decision on the final race. The sport seems very corrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 They are going to impose a points deduction on a previous season are they. They could do it this year but it needs to be sorted earlier in the season. If they overspend by 7 million then next season is the budget less 7 million. Similarly if you underspend your remaining budget can be carried over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 12, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 12, 2022 10 hours ago, mykeyb said: If they overspend by 7 million then next season is the budget less 7 million. Similarly if you underspend your remaining budget can be carried over. That only works if those are clearly in the rules and everyone know about it. To put that in place now would be ludicrous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 12, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 12, 2022 I guess the question will be "What punishment is the best solution for the sport?" and by that I mean "What's going to be most effective way for this to be used in increasing TV viewing numbers and not alienating existing viewers and sponsors?". Once they've figured that out, that's what they'll do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farlz Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 If Hulkenberg somehow shithouses his way back onto the grid well then there's hope for everyone. Ricciardo ain't got nothing to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 So the fia have made redbull an offer, accept that they have overspent and the punishment and details of the overspend will remain secret What an absolute farce 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 No surprise from Horner, going as pathetic as saying the breach accusations are damaging to the team and it's mental health Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, Jimzk5 said: No surprise from Horner, going as pathetic as saying the breach accusations are damaging to the team and it's mental health The King of Cringe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 Only team to breach the cost cap. Same team romps home to win both drivers and constructors titles. Horner - ‘we didn’t even benefit from it’ Yeah okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 47 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Only team to breach the cost cap. Same team romps home to win both drivers and constructors titles. Horner - ‘we didn’t even benefit from it’ Yeah okay. As Horner said, the figures they are discussing now is just a few hundred thousand pounds The punishment will be pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted October 22, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 22, 2022 After last season's manipulation of the results why is anyone surprised that it's happened again. F1 as sport is finished , it's WWE for motor racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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