Covid Outbreak

[TheAuthority]

21 hours ago, Mic09 said:

But I don't think everyone who doesn't get vaxxed is selfish, an idiot, or a granny killer.

 

Hmmm, it's becoming more and more apparent that they are though. What is a real, legitimate reason for not getting vaxxed? Those of us who have been are paying for those that won't.

Quote

Not everyone against child vaccination is a social media right wing weirdo, so let's not treat them that way.

Again what legitimate reasons are there? Science says that child vaccination is perfectly safe and has eradicated lots of disease. Why wouldn't someone want that for their kids? What would you believe beyond science?

(The theory that vaccines comes from an aborted fetuses is proven false, misinformation.)

[John]

If we are missing "a couple" of players due to Covid-19, then why don't we look to get the game called off just like Spurs and Newton Heath have done recently, rather than trying to soldier on like we did in January with a depleted squad, or are Covid-19 postponements only granted to former greed league applicants?   

[Mantis]

1 hour ago, John said:

If we are missing "a couple" of players due to Covid-19, then why don't we look to get the game called off just like Spurs and Newton Heath have done recently, rather than trying to soldier on like we did in January with a depleted squad, or are Covid-19 postponements only granted to former greed league applicants?   

I think you have to have 4 or 5 players out at least to get be able to get a Covid postponement.

[Nigel]

7 minutes ago, Mantis said:

I think you have to have 4 or 5 players out at least to get be able to get a Covid postponement.

There is no hard rule about numbers atm, its all done on a case by case method.

No one really wants to call a game off so it would seem if you ask they will call it off.

[Mic09]

2 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

Hmmm, it's becoming more and more apparent that they are though. What is a real, legitimate reason for not getting vaxxed? Those of us who have been are paying for those that won't.

Again what legitimate reasons are there? Science says that child vaccination is perfectly safe and has eradicated lots of disease. Why wouldn't someone want that for their kids? What would you believe beyond science?

(The theory that vaccines comes from an aborted fetuses is proven false, misinformation.)

There are many reasons.

For example, transsexual men to women who are very much at a great risk of blood clots and heart disease following hormonal transition. 

This is of course playing odds - let's say you are transsexual and your risk of blood clots or heart problems are 1-1000 or 1-2000, or even 1-10,000. And you are 22, healthy, with a good diet and no health issues. 

I am not saying they shouldn't get the vaccine. I am saying I wouldn't call them 'selfish' for basing a medical decision on their own circumstance. 

That's the first I heard the aborted foetuses theory, so I can't comment. It sounds ridiculous.  

As for child vaccinations, a healthy 5 year old is at next to no risk of Covid. Accodring to BBC, 2 kids in 1 million died of Covid, between start of pandemic to mid 2021. And as I understand, those kids were already ill with other problems. 

Again, the vaccine might not do anyone any harm.

But I wouldn't ridicule parents who decide against giving their kids a drug that realistically does very little for their health. 

Now, I don't know what I would do in these circumstances. But what I'm trying to say, let's not ridicule those people, because I think it does little to increase the vaccine uptake. 

Not everyone that's unvaccinated wears a tin hat (or a MAGA hat). 

And, once again, I am double vaxxed. But I am just as much for calling someone unvaccinated stupid, as I am for calling someone who drinks beer on regular basis and does not do 5km a day - because those very simple tools to increase your cardiovascular health and greatly decrease your chances of being badly affected by covid. 

[Rodders]

Slow vaccine uptake has been an issue in football

Simon Stone

BBC Sport

Going back two or three months there was a worryingly slow uptake among professional footballers receiving Covid-19 vaccinations.

It took a big push from the authorities to move the dial on that but clubs are behind the curve and it has left them behind with regards to second jabs and booster jabs.

The Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola spoke about the situation on Monday and he is not alone in encouraging his players and members of staff to get those because it is clearly an issue in football.

 

 

**** retards. 

 

No sympathy for any of these pricks. And if our players are being bellends I would happily transfer them out of the club on 1st Jan.   Get **** with anyone saying there are genuine concerns, absolutely **** off and get in the bin. Had it up to here with that illiterate ignorant dumbass attitude. Just **** OFF

Edited December 14, 2021 by Rodders

[Rodders]

How many times, it's **** all about whether one individual ( stupidly ) thinks they have some kind of special immune system that can beat all new virus' in a way no other can, as if they're some kind of alien ubermench. Vaccinations, cut and reduce transmission. You want this shit to stop? You want to get back to normality? Then everyone doing their bit to reduce transmission get's us there a lot **** faster. 

[The Fun Factory]

I had thought the vaccine take up rate in players had gone up after some initial criticism? 

[lexicon]

I'm with @Rodders on this one. Reminds me of Brexit, really - anything logical or from a source that knows what they're talking about gets ignored, then these people get upset when they're called stupid/selfish etc and have the **** cheek to say 'If you were just nice to us in the first place, then we wouldn't have stuck our heads in the fire/jumped off that cliff/repeatedly headbutted that girder'. Just had enough of them, they can all **** off. 

[villalad21]

You guys are acting like the vaccine gives you immunity. 

My dad is double vacced and contracted covid a couple of weeks ago. 

Covid has become a part of life just like the flu, and we have to learn to live with it and not call off every single game everytime there's been an outbreak. 

Covid isn't going away anytime soon. 

If you can assemble a first eleven you play. That's my stance on it. 

[Jbvilla909]

You can still catch and transmit the virus even when vaccinated. I've been double jabbed and still got it in August. They just prevent severe illness in the elder from what I've seen. 

Young people who have had he virus will have better immunity than if they had the jabs. 

 

[villalad21]

7 minutes ago, Jbvilla909 said:

You can still catch and transmit the virus even when vaccinated. I've been double jabbed and still got it in August. They just prevent severe illness in the elder from what I've seen. 

Young people who have had he virus will have better immunity than if they had the jabs. 

 

Yeah. 

Even if every single person in a state is double vacced people would still contract it. 

It is as you say. The vaccine make you better equipped with dealing with it should you catch it. It doesn't give you immunity, it doesn't make the virus go away. 

Some folks are worried about the long term side effects of the vaccine and I can respect that. I'm personally double vacced but I don't judge non vacced people. 

[The Hawk]

1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

You guys are acting like the vaccine gives you immunity. 

My dad is double vacced and contracted covid a couple of weeks ago. 

Covid has become a part of life just like the flu, and we have to learn to live with it and not call off every single game everytime there's been an outbreak. 

Covid isn't going away anytime soon. 

If you can assemble a first eleven you play. That's my stance on it. 

I never thought I’d be entering a vaccine debate on VillaTalk let alone agreeing with Villalad21 but here we are. 

Some frighteningly simplistic viewpoints being put forward in this thread eg false equivalences comparing all vaccines as the same - they’re not... 

The more traditional protein-based vaccines in most cases provide sterilising immunity whereas mRNA Covid vaccines barely reduce transmission and are more of a therapy designed to reduce symptoms.

A close associate of mine develops vaccines and believes the basic reproduction number (R nought) of a COVID vaccinated person at the height of their immunity period (note: these vaccines quickly wane) is roughly 5 whereas for an unvaccinated person it is 6, meaning an unvaccinated person is likely to pass on the virus to one more person than a vaccinated person at their peak immunity. Exponential mathematics show the difference between 5 vs 6 is irrelevant.

Bill Gates himself says so below.

I’m all for vaccinations, but blaming the unvaccinated for all our problems is a lazy, uninformed and divisive stance. We need better vaccines (or other therapeutics) before that argument stands up.

 

[Stevo985]

26 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

You guys are acting like the vaccine gives you immunity. 

My dad is double vacced and contracted covid a couple of weeks ago. 

Honestly the stupidest argument there is. I wish people would stop peddling this shit

[Stevo985]

32 minutes ago, The Hawk said:

A close associate of mine develops vaccines and believes the basic reproduction number (R nought) of a COVID vaccinated person at the height of their immunity period (note: these vaccines quickly wane) is roughly 5 whereas for an unvaccinated person it is 6, meaning an unvaccinated person is likely to pass on the virus to one more person than a vaccinated person at their peak immunity. Exponential mathematics show the difference between 5 vs 6 is irrelevant.

 

I don't know where you got these numbers, as they sound wrong to me. But saying the difference between an R number of 5 vs an R number of 6 is irrelevant is absolute nonsense.

 

If people have an R number of 5, that means they pass the virus on to 5 people. Then those 5 pass it on to 5 more people each, then all of those pass it on to 5 people etc etc. If it's 6 then they pass it on to 6, then those 6 pass it on to 6, then all those pass it on to 6 etc

If everyone had an R of 5, then after 10 stages of transmission, you would have about 9.7m people with Covid.
If the R number was 6, then after 10 stages of transmission you'd have over 60m people with Covid

That doesn't sound like an irrelevant difference to me.


That being said I have never heard of the R number for Covid being anywhere near as high as 5, vaccinated or unvaccinated. As i remember it Covid was said to have an R number of 3 if nothing was done to stop the spread.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Stevo985

[The Moustache of Teale]

1 hour ago, Rodders said:

Slow vaccine uptake has been an issue in football

Simon Stone

BBC Sport

Going back two or three months there was a worryingly slow uptake among professional footballers receiving Covid-19 vaccinations.

It took a big push from the authorities to move the dial on that but clubs are behind the curve and it has left them behind with regards to second jabs and booster jabs.

The Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola spoke about the situation on Monday and he is not alone in encouraging his players and members of staff to get those because it is clearly an issue in football.

 

 

**** retards. 

 

No sympathy for any of these pricks. And if our players are being bellends I would happily transfer them out of the club on 1st Jan.   Get **** with anyone saying there are genuine concerns, absolutely **** off and get in the bin. Had it up to here with that illiterate ignorant dumbass attitude. Just **** OFF

Interesting article. Simon Stone starts off quite professionally but then descends into a string of expletives and obscenities. I’m surprised the BBC published that.

[The Hawk]

7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I don't know where you got these numbers, as they sound wrong to me. But saying the difference between an R number of 5 vs an R number of 6 is absolute nonsense.

 

If people have an R number of 5, that means they pass the virus on to 5 people. Then those 5 pass it on to 5 more people each, then all of those pass it on to 5 people etc etc. If it's 6 then they pass it on to 6, then those 6 pass it on to 6, then all those pass it on to 6 etc

If everyone had an R of 5, then after 10 stages of transmission, you would have about 9.7m people with Covid.
If the R number was 6, then after 10 stages of transmission you'd have over 60m people with Covid

That doesn't sound like an irrelevant difference to me.


That being said I have never heard of the R number for Covid being anywhere near as high as 5, vaccinated or unvaccinated. As i remember it Covid was said to have an R number of 3 if nothing was done to stop the spread.

You’re correct in that the initial virus was roughly 3 as you say, Alpha strain roughly 4-5 and Delta 5-8.

The difference between 5 vs 6 is irrelevant because in both scenarios, everyone will still eventually be infected, which isn’t necessarily the worst thing if we can manage severe outcomes (hospitalisations/deaths) via treatment protocols. 

Like other viruses, if the above pattern continues then over time it will become more transmissible but less deadly. Circling back to why I agree with the likes of Villalad, based on the above it isn’t going away and we must learn to live with this. Freaking out over cases and shutting down is an outdated approach.

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, The Hawk said:

The difference between 5 vs 6 is irrelevant because in both scenarios, everyone will still eventually be infected, which isn’t necessarily the worst thing if we can manage severe outcomes (hospitalisations/deaths) via treatment protocols. 

This makes no sense. By that logic the difference between 1.1 and 1000 is irrelevant because eventually everyone will get infected.

The higher the R number, the quicker it spreads. The faster hospitals and the NHS get overrun, and the more people die. You've said it yourself, we need to manage sever outcomes, well that is way WAY harder with a virus that is more transmissible. And believe me, despite what you say, the difference between an R of 5 and an R of 6 is absolutely massive .

The difference between 9 million and 60 million is huge in that context. And framing that misinformation as a reason for not getting the vaccine because it doesn't stop transmission isn't just wrong, it's dangerous

[MrBlack]

50 minutes ago, The Moustache of Teale said:

Interesting article. Simon Stone starts off quite professionally but then descends into a string of expletives and obscenities. I’m surprised the BBC published that.

Brilliant  

[MrBlack]

37 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

This makes no sense. By that logic the difference between 1.1 and 1000 is irrelevant because eventually everyone will get infected.

The higher the R number, the quicker it spreads. The faster hospitals and the NHS get overrun, and the more people die. You've said it yourself, we need to manage sever outcomes, well that is way WAY harder with a virus that is more transmissible. And believe me, despite what you say, the difference between an R of 5 and an R of 6 is absolutely massive .

The difference between 9 million and 60 million is huge in that context. And framing that misinformation as a reason for not getting the vaccine because it doesn't stop transmission isn't just wrong, it's dangerous

Even if we ignore the slightly reduced transmission rate, the bigger argument for the vaccine is that the vaccinated population probably won't need hospitalisation. So even if the spread of 5 vs 6 is still virtually the same (as above, it isnt), the percent of those that end up in hospital will be much lower, and you don't end up with the situation where people die because there aren't enough beds/staff to cope.

Madness to think the vaccine doesn't help. Not madness to be concerned with potential long term side effects... that said I have a friend who had covid before vaccine existed, and 15 months later they still can't taste anything. Worse than nearly any remotely likely side effect of the vaccine.

 

Edit: on topic,  I cant see any logical reason why any of our first team would resist having the vaccine. The most logical concerns on the vaccine are in pregnant/due to become pregnant women, and even they are very much debatable. For our men's first team, who have really short careers, aren't women, and could have their short careers ended by a bad reaction to covid, it is weird why they wouldn't want it.

And saying there has been slow uptake of second/booster vaccines is even more bizarre. That's just laziness and any player falling into this bracket is a moron.

Edited December 14, 2021 by MrBlack