Steven Gerrard

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Carlton Cole ( Yes i know ) lol was on Talksport yesterday.

He said as a player, they are always aware that literally anything can happen on opening day, and that it takes a while for players and teams to acclimatise and get into any sort of rhythm or structure.

I'm clutching at all the straws I can find.

Opening day does tend to present alot of shocks though?

[nick76]

3 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Carlton Cole ( Yes i know ) lol was on Talksport yesterday.

He said as a player, they are always aware that literally anything can happen on opening day, and that it takes a while for players and teams to acclimatise and get into any sort of rhythm or structure.

I'm clutching at all the straws I can find.

Opening day does tend to present alot of shocks though?

But the way we played wasn’t a shock

[WallisFrizz]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Carlton Cole ( Yes i know ) lol was on Talksport yesterday.

He said as a player, they are always aware that literally anything can happen on opening day, and that it takes a while for players and teams to acclimatise and get into any sort of rhythm or structure.

I'm clutching at all the straws I can find.

Opening day does tend to present alot of shocks though?

I’m still pissed off but I’m ready to rein it in and start looking forward to Everton. Season is long, yesterday doesn’t have to define us as awful as it was.

[MrBlack]

8 hours ago, a-k said:

On cancelling the Liverpool friendly...

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-gerrard-transfers-liverpool-24691701

Complete bollocks. Players barely put in a shift and your squad depth (that you are bombing out) needs minutes

Wow. "We've given enough opportunities"... really. Then how come he still doesn't know what our best 11 is. Because the team he put out against Bournemouth certainly isn't our best 11.

And given the players he didn't start should be promoteed after the performance the rest of them put in,  surely its worth getting them some match fitness. 

I slept on it, and really wanted to give him at least 5 games before making a judgement, but he's sounding like he's lost it. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

9 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

Wow. "We've given enough opportunities"... really. Then how come he still doesn't know what our best 11 is. Because the team he put out against Bournemouth certainly isn't our best 11.

And given the players he didn't start should be promoteed after the performance the rest of them put in,  surely its worth getting them some match fitness. 

I slept on it, and really wanted to give him at least 5 games before making a judgement, but he's sounding like he's lost it. 

I'm wondering if it was " Last chance saloon " for some, and they failed miserably, and we'll now see imminent transfer incomings.

It seems yesterday infuriated absolutely everyone involved at the club.

From one angle i can see why he ( Gerrard ) is immensely pissed off, however on the other, some ( Alot ? ) of it is his own doing.

Edited August 7, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Zhan_Zhuang]

To give Gerrard at least some wiggle-room it is difficult to select a current Villa eleven.

Us on VT all disagree on whether we should play Ings, Watkins or Archer.

Who are the three to play in midfield, who to play as attackers, who to be our CB pair.

Which is why we do have a good squad, the best in a decade perhaps and competition is strong. No Nakamba or Sanson on the bench proves that...

[avfc1982am]

14 minutes ago, rbcuk said:

After yesterday I think the fans who was on the fence with him have certainly gone to the out side, I couldn’t even tell you what kind of football he’s trying to play, at least we smith we had a game plan with gerrard it’s just a mess compounded with him putting McGinn as Captain he should be no where near the starting 11

I think it's a myth we had a much of a game plan under Smith tbh. If we did it went out of the window if Grealish was on the pitch. Unless the game plan was just pass to Jack.

We had little game plan but a far better system and balance under Smith. A straight 433 with width and balance across the pitch but lacking in quality and strength on the left and centrally. Still tactically short at times and short of the quality in the areas we needed but overall the weaknesses in Smith's team were far easier to spot imo. I felt it was a case of upgrade here and there and we were good to go. The system had balance even if we were ineffective at times. Under Gerrard the system appears so  rigid and boring you could fall asleep watching us play. All that possession and you knew we wouldn't score once they sat deep yesterday. Just boring watching us muddle about especially with the creativity we have in the squad.

He needs to get Buendia, Coutinho and Bailey into a system that provides natural width up front with a CF to feed off. Give them space to play in and play with 2 6/8's behind them in Kamara and Luiz(or another). Stop exposing the DM position by expecting Luiz(last season) or now Kamara to cover too much ground own their own across the defensive line in the 6 role. Take some of the responsibility in attack from the FB's and allow them to defend first and support secondly. 

[KitKat]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

I'm happy to give him more time but also can't see whats going to click that makes it all work. 

 

Same, but hope we can somehow turn a good performance in to a string of them. A goal for one of our forwards would do us good and some confidence that were progressing would be great for the players and fans. The headspace most of us on here seem to be in suggests it might go the other way though and in all likelihood based on past results it probably will...but time will tell.

 

If we are anywhere near as bad next match as the last there will be more than question marks against the managers performance so far.

 

[daft]

3 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

I think it's a myth we had a much of a game plan under Smith tbh. If we did it went out of the window if Grealish was on the pitch. Unless the game plan was just pass to Jack.

We had little game plan but a far better system and balance under Smith. A straight 433 with width and balance across the pitch but lacking in quality and strength on the left and centrally. Still tactically short at times and short of the quality in the areas we needed but overall the weaknesses in Smith's team were far easier to spot imo. I felt it was a case of upgrade here and there and we were good to go. The system had balance even if we were ineffective at times. Under Gerrard the system appears so  rigid and boring you could fall asleep watching us play. All that possession and you knew we wouldn't score once they sat deep yesterday. Just boring watching us muddle about especially with the creativity we have in the squad.

He needs to get Buendia, Coutinho and Bailey into a system that provides natural width up front with a CF to feed off. Give them space to play in and play with 2 6/8's behind them in Kamara and Luiz(or another). Stop exposing the DM position by expecting Luiz(last season) or now Kamara to cover too much ground own their own across the defensive line in the 6 role. Take some of the responsibility in attack from the FB's and allow them to defend first and support secondly. 

I was a bit detached for a while, so didn’t see much of Smiths Villa, but it is very worrying hearing so many talk if us having so much more of an identity and structure under him.

It really does make me wonder if we shouldn’t hope for new owners if they are so poor at recognizing basic stuff like that and yank the rug from under someone that the fans at least seems to think has it down.

Gerrard is one thing, but what are the owners doing and do they have the skills?

[AlwaysAVFC]

I really don't think it's the players that are the issue, not sure if it's the coaching or the system but it's clearly not working. Not getting carried away and hopefully he turns it around, but it's clearly not working at the moment or for a while. Can he turn it around persisting with the system or will he change?

Personally the focus should be on the midfield. It doesn’t work defensively or attacking. We don't keep the ball very well and create very little.

There is enough from the players to know they can do it. A very limited show but on occasion our play can be quick and dynamic.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

9 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

To give Gerrard at least some wiggle-room it is difficult to select a current Villa eleven.

Us on VT all disagree on whether we should play Ings, Watkins or Archer.

Who are the three to play in midfield, who to play as attackers, who to be our CB pair.

Which is why we do have a good squad, the best in a decade perhaps and competition is strong. No Nakamba or Sanson on the bench proves that...

I think another conundrum is, I bet some of these are outstanding in training, and shite on the pitch, and vice versa.

I can also bet some things might look great on the training ground, fluid etc and either not be implemented properly or simply not work due to opposition or even one person being slightly off.

It's one of the reasons I say Management really isn't as easy as it looks from the outside in I feel.

This is where good IN GAME Management comes into it though!

That goes for any Manager obviously. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[DCJonah]

7 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

To give Gerrard at least some wiggle-room it is difficult to select a current Villa eleven.

Us on VT all disagree on whether we should play Ings, Watkins or Archer.

Who are the three to play in midfield, who to play as attackers, who to be our CB pair.

Which is why we do have a good squad, the best in a decade perhaps and competition is strong. No Nakamba or Sanson on the bench proves that...

But We're fans watching from a distance. He's paid millions of pounds to work with these players everyday. 

The worst thing about him so far is that after 2 windows and months with the club, he still doesn't know his best team or formation. That's almost unforgiveable. 

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

To give Gerrard at least some wiggle-room it is difficult to select a current Villa eleven.

Us on VT all disagree on whether we should play Ings, Watkins or Archer.

Who are the three to play in midfield, who to play as attackers, who to be our CB pair.

Which is why we do have a good squad, the best in a decade perhaps and competition is strong. No Nakamba or Sanson on the bench proves that...

So a good squad, best in decades but played like we did yesterday??? and a reason is that our manager has too many options re difficult to select a current Villa eleven???

Nope, that doesn’t pass the mustard for allowance of wiggle room.  If it was injuries, disrupted preseason or something like that the fine but too many options is not a reason for allowance.

[Chindie]

Gerrard wants to play with the true width coming from marauding fullbacks, the midfield is reasonably flexible with it either being a flat 3, a 1-2 or 2-1 depending on opposition and the balance of play, and then the forwards being the modern style that mixes winger, striker and generalised attacking midfielder into a complete forward that has a lot of movement and works as it's own unit almost. It's a model that on paper is fantastic.

The problem is we don't have the players to do it successfully at Prem level - we have good fullbacks but you need ones that are a step above your opponent to make it worth, we don't have the type of forwards required, either focusing on wingers or players not good enough consistently to do the role he wants, for donkeys we didn't have the vital DM that makes it all tick. He seems to have realised this, finally, and mixed it up, but now he's presented with another problem. How does he take this squad and make something work? He has no idea.

He obviously thinks we need to spend more. And he's right. But I think he thinks the problem he has is the players aren't good enough. When the reality is there's a decent squad here, there's talent and ability. Needs some upgrades, but there's stuff you can work with here. Gerrard will just want 'better' and send them out the same way he always does. Which he can't do. His job to make the team perform, and even if the players aren't up to his 'standards', he has to make a system that works. And he doesn't.

He has players that are not performing, and will not drop them. He has players that literally change the game when they play, and he benches them. He has players who look solid, who he won't play. He drops players who have performed for seemingly no reason.

He's not a very good manager. His career highlight as a manager is winning a 2 horse race when one of the other horses went lame, after 3 years of trying, in a league where he basically was playing with cheat codes on. His time at Villa Park has been highlighted by a, what, month and a half, 2 months maybe? of decent form, and spending some money on some unlikely names.

He's pony.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

27 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I think another conundrum is, I bet some of these are outstanding in training, and shite on the pitch, and vice versa.

I can also bet some things might look great on the training ground, fluid etc and either not be implemented properly or simply not work due to opposition or even one person being slightly off.

It's one of the reasons I say Management really isn't as easy as it looks from the outside in I feel.

This is where good IN GAME Management comes into it though!

That goes for any Manager obviously. 

It is quite possibly another factor...

27 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

But We're fans watching from a distance. He's paid millions of pounds to work with these players everyday. 

The worst thing about him so far is that after 2 windows and months with the club, he still doesn't know his best team or formation. That's almost unforgiveable. 

He is yet is still a rookie manager, well his only real experience is SPL which isn't saying much.

27 minutes ago, nick76 said:

So a good squad, best in decades but played like we did yesterday??? and a reason is that our manager has too many options re difficult to select a current Villa eleven???

Nope, that doesn’t pass the mustard for allowance of wiggle room.  If it was injuries, disrupted preseason or something like that the fine but too many options is not a reason for allowance.

It is not a reason but a contributing factor, we don't have to see it as black and white...

As we have seen from the last few responses there are many reasons, factors...

Many seem to just declare well he's not good enough and I told you so. But here we are, he is not going anywhere so he needs to change something most likely the personnel which verifies my point about which eleven to start with.

In hindsight Buendia over Coutinho, Mings over Konsa etc...

[Rightdm00]

He's clueless, that's the scary part. Even if he stumbles on a working solution for Everton he won't have any idea how to build on it. We are just treading water right now. Sucks but it's looking like another season of stops and starts. 

[Zhan_Zhuang]

3 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

He's clueless, that's the scary part. Even if he stumbles on a working solution for Everton he won't have any idea how to build on it. We are just treading water right now. Sucks but it's looking like another season of stops and starts. 

[nick76]

26 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

It is not a reason but a contributing factor, we don't have to see it as black and white...

So having a good squad depth is classed as a contributing factor to a defeat.  Things aren’t black and white but that is pushing boundaries of an excuse plus Gerrard wanted options in every position.  I just can’t see having options is a valid excuse among more reasonable likely excuses.

30 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

Many seem to just declare well he's not good enough and I told you so

No, many are saying we haven’t seen anything to date that he is good enough.  He has to show us and it’s not there currently.

As for the “I told you so” it’s more that we are have raising these concerns and he’s not addressing them, if you want to take that as I told you so then so be it.  I think it’s more than others are raising valid concerns and those who had those concerns are saying yes we know.

33 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

In hindsight Buendia over Coutinho, Mings over Konsa etc...

You really think he’s going to drop Coutinho? It’s not going to happen in the short term.  

As for Mings, the comments Gerrard allegedly said to that reporter suggests Mings has some way to go before he gets back in the team so maybe Konsa keeps his place or Chambers comes in.  

Plus Gerrard has shown in the past he doesn’t learn from these things, I’m hopeful he does this time but I don’t expect him to change things too much for next week.

[maqroll]

2 hours ago, WallisFrizz said:

I’m still pissed off but I’m ready to rein it in and start looking forward to Everton. Season is long, yesterday doesn’t have to define us as awful as it was.

Agreed. I think we all run the risk of *almost* enjoying the negativity. 

Yesterday is behind us. Let's see what the week ahead has in store. Maybe an incoming player. And maybe 3 points on Saturday. 

[skarroki]

3 hours ago, Davkaus said:

While this concerns me, it's not his attitude that bothers me so much as the club hierarchy being willing to go along with it.

This is exactly where I'm at with it too. Which is why I put him being pals with Purslow as an issue, they'll be too much leniency from high for his shortcomings and he'll get away with asking too much, because if this appointment is deemed a failure then Purslow will have questions to answer for so single-mindedly chasing someone he's worked with before over other solid candidates.