TRO Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, lexicon said: It's like we were talking about the other day, I just don't think it's the style Dean/the club goes for tbf. I think you are right....but time will tell if he's/they are right.....results will dictate that. I met up with a few old mates in a pub ,from my Villa days at the Aston Social ( don't go in there anymore, I go with the missus and she don't drink) I digress. We got talking about midfield and I put forward the discussion about this, now bearing in mind they are around my age, but they baulked when I suggested we might be dinosaurs.....but they too thought we was missing a durable character in midfield, ( one that can play too) Now, I don't want to go in to a long protracted debate on this as I respect, everyone has their own views, inc Dean/club.....but we seen first hand the other night, where an agricultural display from Poland, earned them a point against possibly our best footballing side....we struggled against the physicality and with relaxed referring, makes it more difficult. I am not saying Poland is without technical ability, Lewondowski clearly is up there with the best, but the rest were very physical all night..and tragically it paid dividends. Now, I am not saying, I want to watch a Villa team doing that every game, but a match on Saturday, might be a useful time to try.....many of us are already writing it off. if we rely on too much football, we might well as.....but a more robust approach might get us something. I don't want us to be the cloggers of the league, but equally trying to go toe to toe in a footballing a fashion, might be a bit naive too....we always try it with Man U playing their game and wonder why we always lose. Edited September 9, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Peter Griffin said: Ah great, I take it we no longer have to strictly stick to the Jan transfer window as long as we are discussing Villa players and transfers. Oh wait! Yeah gave up on that when people continued to ignore the subject so if you can’t beat them join them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 Let’s maybe not perhaps discuss unrealistic player sales and keep this to realistic incomings ? Selling Mings is just a stupid suggestion imo and has been fuelled by boredom in the absence of links… Yes he has the odd huge mistake in him but then if we use that to batter Mings then should we highlight how often Watkins hit the woodwork and use that as a stick to beat him with … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 30 minutes ago, thabucks said: Selling Mings is just a stupid suggestion imo and has been fuelled by boredom in the absence of links Not fuelled by boredom. I think we should sell him if we can find a buyer and a suitable replacement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 What left footed CB would you suggest then for us to go for ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody1000 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 33 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: Not fuelled by boredom. I think we should sell him if we can find a buyer and a suitable replacement. Come the end of the season, IF Mings was to miss a spell of games with injury let’s say and Konsa proved to be a leader of our defence in his absence, then I would possibly be open to selling Mings if replaced by a ‘better’ defender. Unfortunately I think a big part of the reason why Konsa is so good for us is that Mings affords him to be able to concentrate on his own game, he may not be as good without Mings next to him. In that case, a replacement for Mings with similar leadership qualities is likely to be experienced which would likely be of a similar age to what Mings is now anyway. I think young, natural leader type defenders are like gold dust. I understand your general point that we don’t want to have aging players on big money, with little or no resale value, but I think sometimes you have to take each case on it’s own merit, and also for me Mings has still got at least another 2-3 years at his current level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, thabucks said: What left footed CB would you suggest then for us to go for ? I don't know. That is Lange's job to identify with the help of his team. It would be naive to think there is not better out there (and that applies to all of our players) and it would make an awful lot of sense for AVFC to replace Mings while he has value as opposed to waiting till he is worth nothing or worse, waiting till he is an overpaid unused player unable to get in the first XI and unable to sell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Woody1000 said: Come the end of the season, IF Mings was to miss a spell of games with injury let’s say and Konsa proved to be a leader of our defence in his absence, then I would possibly be open to selling Mings if replaced by a ‘better’ defender. Unfortunately I think a big part of the reason why Konsa is so good for us is that Mings affords him to be able to concentrate on his own game, he may not be as good without Mings next to him. In that case, a replacement for Mings with similar leadership qualities is likely to be experienced which would likely be of a similar age to what Mings is now anyway. I think young, natural leader type defenders are like gold dust. I understand your general point that we don’t want to have aging players on big money, with little or no resale value, but I think sometimes you have to take each case on it’s own merit, and also for me Mings has still got at least another 2-3 years at his current level. I agree about the leadership. There are very few strong leaders (from what I can see) at Villa, it is a weakness in our recruitment in the last few years. I am hoping Ings will be a bit of a leader in the team. I think he has it in him to do so. But we do need a strong leader at CB and if Mings was to go we would have to get a new CB in that is a leader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: I don't know. That is Lange's job to identify with the help of his team. It would be naive to think there is not better out there (and that applies to all of our players) and it would make an awful lot of sense for AVFC to replace Mings while he has value as opposed to waiting till he is worth nothing or worse, waiting till he is an overpaid unused player unable to get in the first XI and unable to sell Why would we sell our captain and England international Tyrone Mings? He just gets better each season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said: Why would we sell our captain and England international Tyrone Mings? He just gets better each season. Because he will be 29 in March and his value is only going to go down from here. The is also a possibility he will lose pace and rather than continue to improve he will get worse with age. Next summer we could command a decent fee for him. With FFP/P&S constraints we need the club to show as high an accounting profit as possible to allow us to invest in more expensive players and pay higher wages. If we want to get to be a Champions League team we must be able to invest in players and pay higher wages. Hanging on to Mings past his sell by date is a bad idea. Selling him at a significant profit is a good idea. We just need Lange to made sure we get the right replacement Edited September 9, 2021 by Peter Griffin Fixed a typo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: Because he will be 29 in March and his value is only going to go down from here. The is also a possibility he will lose pace and rather than continue to improve he will get worse with age. Next summer we could command a decent fee for him. With FFP/P&S constraints we need the club to show as high an accounting profit as possible to allow us to invest in more expensive players and pay higher wages. If we want to get to be a Champions League team we must be able to invest in players and pay higher wages. Hanging on to Mings past his sell by date is a bad idea. Selling him at a significant profit is a good idea. We just need Lange to made sure we get the right replacement Appreciate the answer mate! I disagree with the conclusion, but your reasoning is sound. For me I think he can take us to the next level but yo are right, we do need to start selling more players at peak value. Its just good business. Edited September 9, 2021 by ciggiesnbeer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 Just now, ciggiesnbeer said: Appreciate the answer mate! I disagree with the conclusion, but your reasoning is sound. For me I think he can take us to the next level but yo are right, we do need to start selling more players at peak value. Its just good business. There is a massive caveat in my view on selling Mings. Lange must be able to find the appropriate replacement. If we unintentionally downgrade it is a disaster. But, I do think we have to have faith and confidence in our people to do their job well. If we don't have faith in Lange then he is the wrong man for the job 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 Re: Mings v Maguire I really like Mings as a Villa player but for me he isn't as good as Maguire, he lacks the same level of composure. Also how many top four (or six) teams would spend an equal Maguire amount of £80-85million on him? How many top six teams would even look at him? None is likely the answer and there is a reason why, he just doesn't have the same all-round game as Maguire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 32 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: Re: Mings v Maguire I really like Mings as a Villa player but for me he isn't as good as Maguire, he lacks the same level of composure. Also how many top four (or six) teams would spend an equal Maguire amount of £80-85million on him? How many top six teams would even look at him? None is likely the answer and there is a reason why, he just doesn't have the same all-round game as Maguire. Mings is a great CB and has been brilliant for Villa. But he is not a top 6 CB. The reason he is in the England setup is because he is left footed. I love the guy and what he has done for Villa but equally we have made him a very very wealthy man. I hope, when the time comes, we part ways with both parties happy. We all loved Gabby at times when he was a Villa player and towards the end of his career the same fans that loved him were saying he was stealing a living. I really don't want to see that ever again with any of our players. Its bad for the fans, bad for the player and very bad for the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Peter Griffin said: Because he will be 29 in March and his value is only going to go down from here. The is also a possibility he will lose pace and rather than continue to improve he will get worse with age. Next summer we could command a decent fee for him. With FFP/P&S constraints we need the club to show as high an accounting profit as possible to allow us to invest in more expensive players and pay higher wages. If we want to get to be a Champions League team we must be able to invest in players and pay higher wages. Hanging on to Mings past his sell by date is a bad idea. Selling him at a significant profit is a good idea. We just need Lange to made sure we get the right replacement Who are you selling Mings to? And for how much? Do you want to sell everyone when they get to 29? That would be quite a one-dimensional approach. We've just bought Ings at 29. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: Who are you selling Mings to? And for how much? Do you want to sell everyone when they get to 29? That would be quite a one-dimensional approach. We've just bought Ings at 29. I obviously have no idea who we would sell Mings to but if we got an offer of 25m+ I would happily take it. And no, I do not want to sell everyone at 29. Ings was bought to score goals for the next 2 to 3 years with the understanding that we will more than likely lose at least 20m on him, if not the full 25m. The strategy for Mings was to get us goals this season and next. With Mings we bought him to help our leaky defence, help get us promoted and help us stay in the PL. He delivered all he was asked to deliver. He was a great buy and we should all be happy. But we need to be realistic about where Villa is trying to go and we must become profitable in order to be able to buy better players and pay higher wages due to FFP/P&S constraints. Transfer and retaining player is unfortunately not just about the player, we need to take into account the financial implications. Selling Mings will help Villa pay higher wages and pay for better quality players. This is what we need to do in order to push up the table for European and Champions League qualification Edited September 9, 2021 by Peter Griffin left out the word 'wages' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 4 hours ago, Peter Griffin said: Not fuelled by boredom. I think we should sell him if we can find a buyer and a suitable replacement. VillaTalk - your one stop shop for horrendous opinions on football 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 minute ago, GingerCollins29 said: VillaTalk - your one stop shop for horrendous opinions on football That may be your opinion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: That may be your opinion My opinion is that anyone who is suggesting our captain, standout leader, fantastic centre half and club role model, the window after we sell our previous captain and cult hero is absolutely off their nut. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 17 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: That may be your opinion To be fair, Mings is now worth much more to the club than just on the pitch. Similarly to what we thought/wanted Jack to be. Far down our list of worries IMO. I've seen him take games by the scruff of the neck, and amp up the other players at times. Off the top of my head, was when he made the error which cost us a goal, then drove himself and the team forward with sheer determination to make amends. Let's see how he does at least for this season, before we start " selling " him. I see your point, as the margins get finer though. Just giving you the flip side of why people would be loathe to lose him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts