January Transfer Window - 2022

[Peter Griffin]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

To be fair, Mings is now worth much more to the club than just on the pitch.

Similarly to what we thought/wanted Jack to be.

Far down our list of worries IMO.

I've seen him take games by the scruff of the neck, and amp up the other players at times.

Off the top of my head, was when he made the error which cost us a goal, then drove himself and the team forward with sheer determination to make amends.

Let's see how he does at least for this season, before we start " selling " him.

I see your point, as the margins get finer though. Just giving you the flip side of why people would be loathe to lose him.

My comments on Mings just about all say that to sell him we need an appropriate replacement. I also say that it is not just footballing skills but also leadership skills. I am not saying we should sell Mings and replace him with crap. I am saying sell Mings and replace him with equal with potential or better. I would like to see us sell him for 25m and spend 50m on a replacement. I am at a loss as to why people would not want an improvement on Mings and to be able to realise an accounting profit in the process

[Tomaszk]

28 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I obviously have no idea who we would sell Mings to but if we got an offer of 25m+ I would happily take it. And no, I do not want to sell everyone at 29. Ings was bought to score goals for the next 2 to 3 years with the understanding that we will more than likely lose at least 20m on him, if not the full 25m. The strategy for Mings was to get us goals this season and next. With Mings we bought him to help our leaky defence, help get us promoted and help us stay in the PL. He delivered all he was asked to deliver. He was a great buy and we should all be happy. But we need to be realistic about where Villa is trying to go and we must become profitable in order to be able to buy better players and pay higher wages due to FFP/P&S constraints. Transfer and retaining player is unfortunately not just about the player, we need to take into account the financial implications. Selling Mings will help Villa pay higher wages and pay for better quality players. This is what we need to do in order to push up the table for European and Champions League qualification

Get what you're saying but I think you are just looking at it a bit simply.

You're choosing the wrong player to make the point with IMO.

Every club wants to buy better players than the ones they have. Every club wants to sell players they don't want for decent money, then buy a better one for less money. Every club.

[Peter Griffin]

3 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

You're choosing the wrong player to make the point with IMO.

 

I disagree. Mings will be 29 in March. After that we lose our ability to make a meaningful profit on him. I think he is exactly the right player to sell. Who else do we have that is at their peak value and only going south from now.

If we sell Mings for 25m next summer we will make an accounting profit of about 20m. We buy a player for 50m of a 5 year contract to replace him. He will cost us about a 10m loss in the same accounting period. So from a financial perspective we are 10m in profit and we have upgraded an ageing player that only lose value with a younger player that will probably increase in value. 

[Rightdm00]

How are we still on this Football Manager fever dream?  

[Rightdm00]

18 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I disagree. Mings will be 29 in March. After that we lose our ability to make a meaningful profit on him. I think he is exactly the right player to sell. Who else do we have that is at their peak value and only going south from now.

If we sell Mings for 25m next summer we will make an accounting profit of about 20m. We buy a player for 50m of a 5 year contract to replace him. He will cost us about a 10m loss in the same accounting period. So from a financial perspective we are 10m in profit and we have upgraded an ageing player that only lose value with a younger player that will probably increase in value. 

Mings is not an ageing player, you need more than 2 hands to count all of his abs. I can go blue in the face listing all the CBs that maintain top flight level of performance well into their 30s. Next to Ollie and Martinez he is the least of our concerns when it comes to upgrading his position. 

[Tomaszk]

17 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I disagree. Mings will be 29 in March. After that we lose our ability to make a meaningful profit on him. I think he is exactly the right player to sell. Who else do we have that is at their peak value and only going south from now.

If we sell Mings for 25m next summer we will make an accounting profit of about 20m. We buy a player for 50m of a 5 year contract to replace him. He will cost us about a 10m loss in the same accounting period. So from a financial perspective we are 10m in profit and we have upgraded an ageing player that only lose value with a younger player that will probably increase in value. 

He might be the right player for you, but the scenario isn't realistic.

I'd be surprised if someone bought Mings off us for £25m. That club doesn't exist.

Losing him from the dressing room and the club is worth something is tricky to put a figure on.

A £50m player is going to come in on serious wages, at least what Mings is on. And a fat signing on fee.

Plus there's then a chance they won't settle for 6/12 months. Suddenly you've got an underperforming player who cost and is earning a fortune in a key position.

I don't think you're looking at the intangibles of what Mings gives us.

[Peter Griffin]

25 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

He might be the right player for you, but the scenario isn't realistic.

I'd be surprised if someone bought Mings off us for £25m. That club doesn't exist.

Losing him from the dressing room and the club is worth something is tricky to put a figure on.

A £50m player is going to come in on serious wages, at least what Mings is on. And a fat signing on fee.

Plus there's then a chance they won't settle for 6/12 months. Suddenly you've got an underperforming player who cost and is earning a fortune in a key position.

I don't think you're looking at the intangibles of what Mings gives us.

You have raised a number of different issues there. I will try and address them

- The reason I am saying he is the right player to sell is due to age and declining value. It is not that I personally want him sold.

- Losing him from the dressing room is not ideal but that is why I repeatedly say we need the appropriate replacement and the replacement must have leadership skills. We need to replace the non footballing aspect Mings brings to Villa and not just the footballing ones

-Yes a 50m player will come on a serious wage and similar to what Mings is on. That is the ideal scenario

- There is always risk with buying a new player, it is not justification not to buy one though, if we applied that logic we would never buy anyone. But we need to have confidence in our recruitment team to get the right players. If we don't trust Lange we need to sack him and get someone in that we do trust

- A player transfer won't normally have a huge signing on fee if there is a large transfer fee. Signing on fees are for 'free' transfers

 

Edit: I didn't address one of your points

- If no club will buy Mings for 25m then clearly we wont sell him for 25m and what I am saying could not happen. It does raise an interesting point though. If no club is prepared to pay 25m for him then it questions how good he actually is and the Villa Fans view of Mings. The other night someone said they wouldn't take 60m/70m for him

Edited September 9, 2021 by Peter Griffin

[Peter Griffin]

35 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

Mings is not an ageing player, you need more than 2 hands to count all of his abs. I can go blue in the face listing all the CBs that maintain top flight level of performance well into their 30s. Next to Ollie and Martinez he is the least of our concerns when it comes to upgrading his position. 

And there are far far more CBs that go off the boil in their 30s. Also, my point is more about him decreasing in value, which he will do, which I have made clear I believe. I also said there are other positions in the first XI that need upgrading ahead of CB. That doesn't change that it makes sense to sell Mings next summer

[Aston_Villan4]

1 hour ago, Peter Griffin said:

You have raised a number of different issues there. I will try and address them

- The reason I am saying he is the right player to sell is due to age and declining value. It is not that I personally want him sold.

- Losing him from the dressing room is not ideal but that is why I repeatedly say we need the appropriate replacement and the replacement must have leadership skills. We need to replace the non footballing aspect Mings brings to Villa and not just the footballing ones

-Yes a 50m player will come on a serious wage and similar to what Mings is on. That is the ideal scenario

- There is always risk with buying a new player, it is not justification not to buy one though, if we applied that logic we would never buy anyone. But we need to have confidence in our recruitment team to get the right players. If we don't trust Lange we need to sack him and get someone in that we do trust

- A player transfer won't normally have a huge signing on fee if there is a large transfer fee. Signing on fees are for 'free' transfers

 

Edit: I didn't address one of your points

- If no club will buy Mings for 25m then clearly we wont sell him for 25m and what I am saying could not happen. It does raise an interesting point though. If no club is prepared to pay 25m for him then it questions how good he actually is and the Villa Fans view of Mings. The other night someone said they wouldn't take 60m/70m for him

[lexicon]

@Peter Griffin you're really downplaying the importance of individuals and leaders here. You don't just chop and change leaders - they emerge and become them over time, and no matter how much research on an individual you do, you don't know whether they'll fit in the way you envisaged or want them to. The club has spent a lot of time building a great atmosphere and the right mentality, so it would be stupid to risk that by selling a core member of the side and its leader just because he's a year or two older than you'd like. His input is worth way more than 25m  and he has a good few years left in him at this level - players who are in their 30s can still play, you know? 

[fightoffyour]

It’s also a bit of a cop out to say it’s Lange’s job to find this £50 m replacement who is younger, an upgrade in terms of footballing ability and also an adequate replacement as a leader who would be willing to join us for similar wages as Mings.

This player doesn’t exist, and if he did then we’d all have heard of him anyway and so would every other club. English tax I know but how much was Ben White?

[est1874]

8 hours ago, Rightdm00 said:

Mings is not an ageing player, you need more than 2 hands to count all of his abs. I can go blue in the face listing all the CBs that maintain top flight level of performance well into their 30s. Next to Ollie and Martinez he is the least of our concerns when it comes to upgrading his position. 

Konsa surely.

[Peter Griffin]

12 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

It’s also a bit of a cop out to say it’s Lange’s job to find this £50 m replacement who is younger, an upgrade in terms of footballing ability and also an adequate replacement as a leader who would be willing to join us for similar wages as Mings.

 

It is not a cop out. Its Lange's job to do that and the reason he earns a good salary. It is nonsense to think or believe that these players do not exist.

[jacketspuds]

14 hours ago, thabucks said:

What left footed CB would you suggest then for us to go for ? 

[MWARLEY2]

3 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

It is not a cop out. Its Lange's job to do that and the reason he earns a good salary. It is nonsense to think or believe that these players do not exist.

Until Villa are averaging 70 percent possession and never ever come under intense pressure in a game then there is no better centre half that suits us more than Ty. He blocks brilliantly. He clears brilliantly and can pass the ball pretty well. He also organises our defence and doesnt stop talking to the other players.

Langes job is to find players that best suit our style of play and our possession stats. He doesnt have to look for one because he already plays for the Villa. 

[Peter Griffin]

9 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said:

Langes job is to find players that best suit our style of play and our possession stats. He doesnt have to look for one because he already plays for the Villa. 

Lange does have to look for a CB and if he doesn't have a short list now then he should be sacked. What happens if Mings has a serious injury and is out for a year. It is the same for every position at Villa. We always need to be prepared for a serious injury and or a bid which is too big to turn down. Do you really expect Lange to only then start scouting for a player when we are desperate?

 

14 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said:

Until Villa are averaging 70 percent possession and never ever come under intense pressure in a game then there is no better centre half that suits us more than Ty

Wow

[fightoffyour]

24 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

It is not a cop out. Its Lange's job to do that and the reason he earns a good salary. It is nonsense to think or believe that these players do not exist.

I would’ve thought his job was more along the lines of finding the next Kante from Ligue 2 than a £50 m household name but I could be wrong.

2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Lange does have to look for a CB and if he doesn't have a short list now then he should be sacked. What happens if Mings has a serious injury and is out for a year. It is the same for every position at Villa. We always need to be prepared for a serious injury and or a bid which is too big to turn down. Do you really expect Lange to only then start scouting for a player when we are desperate?

Agree with that. We will have lists for every position, playing and coaching. I’m pretty sure Dean spoke about that as the Brentford model.

Edited September 10, 2021 by fightoffyour

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, fightoffyour said:

I would’ve thought his job was more along the lines of finding the next Kante from Ligue 2 than a £50 m household name but I could be wrong.

Is it not both? He needs to find value in players that will fit into our team. Whether a player costs 5m or 50m they can still be value. We paid about 30m each for 4 transfers recently and each of them look like they are players that will increase in value. The lower we pay for a player the better it is for us as it helps towards profitability. It is absolutely vital we are able to churn players for an accounting profit. It will help us to break into Europe and Champions League spots. 

[MWARLEY2]

6 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Lange does have to look for a CB and if he doesn't have a short list now then he should be sacked. What happens if Mings has a serious injury and is out for a year. It is the same for every position at Villa. We always need to be prepared for a serious injury and or a bid which is too big to turn down. Do you really expect Lange to only then start scouting for a player when we are desperate?

 

Wow

There is nothing wow about it . And yes it is my opinion and not a fact. All i can see is that we have a player who loves the club , leads the club, and is obviously hugely respected by his teammates. We are playing premier league football not Chumps league football and Tyrones skillset allied to the above mentioned assets make him the perfect player for where we are just starting our third season back in the prem. 

I watched a documentary last night called the Brady 6 and it was about the other 6 quarterbacks picked ahead of Tom Brady in the NFL draft. They all had on paper superior skillsets to Tom . But what was missed by the scouts was heart. Thats an intangible but something Brady had bucketloads of. And i think Ty has bucketloads of as well 

I hope there is a point where we need to replace him . Not because i don't like him. But because we are playing at such a high level that we need to. Until that point he is perfect for us 

 

[fightoffyour]

10 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Is it not both? He needs to find value in players that will fit into our team.

Could well be, like I said, but the transfer committee is more than just Lange and I would guess that someone like Buendia is more of a Smith signing. That is a complete guess though.

10 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

It is absolutely vital we are able to churn players for an accounting profit. It will help us to break into Europe and Champions League spots. 

Again, I fully agree, as I have already wrote in more detail earlier in this thread. I just think that there are exceptions and Mings is one of, if not the only in one of those in our squad right now. I believe we'd get more value out of him leaving on a free at 34 than selling him next summer for £25 m.

Other players will have to be sold for profit and replaced and there are a few obvious candidates who I don't even want to name because it will be another sad day when they leave, even after we've all been taught a lesson about sentimentality this summer.

Edited September 10, 2021 by fightoffyour