villa4europe Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 minute ago, MSvillain said: i'd love to know how West Ham are valued at almost double what we are, especially as they don't even have a stadium I'm guessing that stadium deal is incredibly profitable for them though Agree that double has to be bullshit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 4 hours ago, MSvillain said: i'd love to know how West Ham are valued at almost double what we are, especially as they don't even have a stadium we dont either do we? we sold the stadium and training ground to another company owned by NSWE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycv Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 Just now, cheltenham_villa said: we dont either do we? we sold the stadium and training ground to another company owned by NSWE I think we do - as it is controlled within the VSports Group, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, andycv said: I think we do - as it is controlled within the VSports Group, my assumption on the previous graphic was that its about the club not necessarily a holding group. Just trying to offer a view on why West Ham are showing such improvement. This could be link to the fact neither of us are holding such a large asset on the club accounts and are paying rent for stadia. Regardless, another well done to Purslow. Put us back where we belong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted June 22, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: For the deals, I'd have to say personally I'm completely against the BK8 deal - entirely on the basis of who they are and what they do, I don't think it's a deal we should have considered - and that's not just about gambling, these are as similar to William Hill as the Proclaimers are to the Krays. what else is wrong with BK8? i saw there was some mysoginistic advert a while back but i read that was down to some marketing company employed by that firm whom they swiftly ditched after that ad came out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 22, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2023 On 01/02/2023 at 19:32, OutByEaster? said: Our shirt sponsor, Kaiyun5, is interesting, and the first step into a very peculiar rabbit hole - it's a gambling company that you can't currently use if you're in the UK which is sponsoring a UK based sports team. I'm guessing the far eastern gambling market is hugely profitable, but you have to wonder who these companies are, what the actual value in sponsorship is for them and how they actually operate. They're currently rebuilding their website, but the old link referred you to another link, which you couldn't open from within the UK. The current site marker is here: https://www.kaiyun.co.uk And it's interesting that it suggests they'll be offering services to "UK players" once they're back up and running. That website is managed by TGP Europe, a company registered on the Isle of Mann who according to the gambling commission's licensing document also trade as BK8. https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/public-register/business/detail/domain-names/38898 Which means our rumoured future front-of-shirt sponsor is the same company as operate the domain name of our current sleeve sponsor. From what I understand, TGP Europe Ltd are essentially a company that provide hosting and management for companies to enter the UK gambling market: https://tgpeurope.com So I guess that means that BK8 are an outside interest that manages gambling brands through hosting, internet stuff and the all important licensing arrangements - including the BK8 brand which seems to be the in-house one. They don't list Kaiyun as a partner on their website. although they do operate a whole host of brands - many of whom sponsor other clubs: Including: 12Bet - Wolves Sleeve sponsor 8xBet - Partnered with Manchester City in an arrangement currently under investigation by the Premier League for 'anomalies'. Bob88 - The Wales National team duelbits - the official European gambling partner of..checks notes...Aston Villa fun88 - shirt sponsor of Newcastle United hthbet - gambling partner of Manchester United and Inter Milan - a relationship that MP's want investigated i8bet - Everton Leyubet and Oubao - both previously linked with us, I think one of them used to be OB sports, last season's sleeve sponsor for us sbotop - Leeds United sponsor sportpesa - Hull City and Everton sportsbetio - Watford sponsor stake uk - also Watford and Everton ticbet - Blackburn, West Brom Every single one of those brands operates under a single licence issued by the Gambling Commission to TGP Europe, who also trade as BK8. It seems Kaiyun isn't the only one with a website under reconstruction at the moment, in fact, a fair few of them are down, but I guess that makes sense, one company makes all the websites, so they'd rebuild them at the same time - right? The power of the group is odd and I must admit I can't quite figure out if this is one organisation with a lot of brands, or one organisation that sells access to it's platform and licence to a lot of brands. With registration being outside of the UK for these brands and companies, it's impossible (for me at least) to see who owns TGP Europe/BK8, let alone who might be behind the money for each of the individual brands - but it would seem that if you run a gambling organisation overseas and you want to trade on a UK licence, TGP Europe/BK8 are the people you pay to do that. Oh, they're also not exactly loved by the gaming community: https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.sportsbetio.uk Now here we get into some very dark waters. There are those that suggest there's much that's even more nefarious about these companies, with some suggesting that those reviews won't bother them one bit and that it's the movement of money, not the gambling that is the chief aim of the companies, with this article being particularly scary: https://josimarfootball.com/the-trillion-dollar-gambling-game/ And this one is interesting too, especially since it talks also about the grey market of illegal Chinese betting. The peculiar story about Man City and their mysterious TGP Europe/BK8 sponsor is here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11421073/Manchester-Citys-partnership-betting-firm-8xBet-anomalies.html There's a story here on MP's wanting an investigation into links between this group of companies and a Chinese gangster https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11661895/MPs-want-investigation-links-jailed-Chinese-billionaire-clubs-betting-partners.html Aaaand there's a little bit more on him here: https://josimarfootball.com/meet-mr-chau/ So yeah, there's a lot to to unpack and it's a mysterious world. I'll leave you to come to your own conclusions. This. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 22, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2023 On 06/02/2023 at 22:00, OutByEaster? said: The stuff here from an hour and five minutes in is interesting in relation to our new sponsor. Football is a very strange business. And this. Probably this especially. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Morals aside, how much are we actually benefiting from this deal? Cazoo deal was apparently worth £6m per year, I can't find much information about this new deal...the only figure i could find mentioned £8m, if this is true, the extra 2 million doesn't seem to be worth the bad publicity associated with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted June 24, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: Morals aside, how much are we actually benefiting from this deal? Cazoo deal was apparently worth £6m per year, I can't find much information about this new deal...the only figure i could find mentioned £8m, if this is true, the extra 2 million doesn't seem to be worth the bad publicity associated with it. I think you find there's a base sponsorship figure, then bonuses based on where we finish in the PL, if we go a long way in the cups and make and win finals in cups. The more exposure, the more sponsorship money. They would have known the bad publicity was coming, but how many people clicked on or googled their website because of the publicity? It's a win/win for them. Edited June 24, 2023 by QldVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 7 hours ago, Czarnikjak said: Morals aside, how much are we actually benefiting from this deal? Cazoo deal was apparently worth £6m per year, I can't find much information about this new deal...the only figure i could find mentioned £8m, if this is true, the extra 2 million doesn't seem to be worth the bad publicity associated with it. I really doubt it's anything short of 14/15m. I feel like they really wanted to get a PL team to sponsor and most teams were put off them. We leveraged that lack of competition to maximise a deal. Add to the fact we've had around a combined 20% inflation over last few years and that would feed into all commerical items including sponsorship deals. People want to have a moan about how they don't like this sponsor and that's their right to have an issue. I look at Newcastle United owned by a government who assassinates journalists and beheads people and treats women as 2nd or 3rd class citizens who can't go anywhere on their own. UEFA was sponsored by Gazprom. In 3 years time we will have build a bigger brand of Aston Villa and can get a similar sponsorship deal from a non betting firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted June 26, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 26, 2023 What an excellent start… 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Oh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted June 26, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 26, 2023 Could be the escape Chris Heck has been dreaming of! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floody555 Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 7 minutes ago, villan-scott said: What an excellent start… Well Well Well, have we had a life line there I wonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Might be an idea to get one of those jerseys asap. They might become valuable collectibles if are forced/given the opportunity to change sponsors. Or this is a planted story to raise sales... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 That is grim reading about BK8. Really need to get out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moustache of Teale Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 19 minutes ago, villan-scott said: What an excellent start… This sounds like a wind-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 please bin this shit sponsor off do we still keep the money tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 24 minutes ago, villan-scott said: What an excellent start… What a mess. Hilarious yes. But we should have stayed well clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) The company which owns the BK8 trademark has no assets here - filing dormant accounts last year. Everything about this is suspicious. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12618662/filing-history Edited June 26, 2023 by The_Steve 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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