Danny Ings

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Tom13 said:

Should always use goals per minute rather than goals per game as you never know how many were off the bench etc.

its a thumb rule.....do it your way and probably wouldn't make much difference.

If he was scoring goals, he wouldn't be on the bench......and when he does get on how many does he score, and change opinions of him having more game time.

No manager, leaves a mature player who can consistently score goals out of the team...so the lack of minutes relates to the poor return anyway.

ps apologies Tom a couple of typo's that didn't make sense.

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by TRO

[Zatman]

27 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Of course he would. You are telling me we wouldnt have got another 4 points if we had Haaland. 2 against Leeds for a start. We'd have beaten West Ham too 

Considering Watkins who plays every game has an of 1.8 in 8 games tells me we wouldnt

[TRO]

6 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I mean, he only has one proper good season in the prem so you tell me.

I would say, we have kidded ourselves.

you have to do, what it says on the tin......and with any regularity, he doesn't.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

He’s got a good football brain, link up play is so much better than Watkins. Get him Coutinho and Buendia as the front three for a run of games and we’d improve massively. Lots of 1-2’s around the box with the movement from Ings and Buendia would create so much more. It won’t happen though unfortunately.

I think we rely on Ollie as the long outlet ball.....Danny is not as athletic to deal with that, so we change and lose something........these two players have us caught between a rock and a hard place.....maybe as a hybrid, they would be ok, 

and to be fair, they are not, SG's buys......should he be getting more out of them, 64 million dollar question?......I guess most on here, think he should....but what if a next manager can't, either.....another pile of dough.

Edited October 7, 2022 by TRO

[ChesterDad]

45 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think we rely on Ollie as the long outlet ball.....Danny is not as athletic to deal with that, so we change and lose something........these two players have us caught between a rock and a hard place.....maybe as a hybrid, they would be ok, 

and to be fair, they are not, SG's buys......should he be getting more out of them, 64 million dollar question?......I guess most on here, think he should....but what if a next manager can't, either.....another pile of dough.

You make some good points here TRO and difficult to argue against - not that I have any desire to.

what I would like to add though is that there is more than enough ability in this squad to create chances for fun.

Also we have a kid chomping at the bit and gets 8 minutes against Bolton - this is all on him TRO and I don’t personally think he has the foggiest idea of what to do, and up to now he doesn’t seem to have much faith in Archer.

[Mark Albrighton]

Based on what transfermarkt says, Ings played 8,566 premier league minutes between 18/19 and 21/22. That’s the equivalent of 95.2 matches, scoring 48 goals (plus about 15 assists).

When we signed him, he had the 8th highest goal tally over the previous 3 seasons. Scoring more and having a better rate than Son, Jesus, Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison.

The only players who scored more were Salah, Kane, Vardy, Aubameyang, Mane and Sterling. Aguero had scored as many as Ings, but in fewer games.

[TRO]

25 minutes ago, ChesterDad said:

You make some good points here TRO and difficult to argue against - not that I have any desire to.

what I would like to add though is that there is more than enough ability in this squad to create chances for fun.

Also we have a kid chomping at the bit and gets 8 minutes against Bolton - this is all on him TRO and I don’t personally think he has the foggiest idea of what to do, and up to now he doesn’t seem to have much faith in Archer.

Thanks.

but I don't think we are giving enough credit here to SG.

The start to the season has put us in a hole, no doubt about that and that first game is on SG for me.....and he is trying find a way out, against a back drop of injuries to key players...gradually, I think he is, but the price is spectacle, its dull......and he knows it.

I think he does have faith in Archer, but doesn't want to destroy his confidence in a team desperate for points.......I see that as having the lads well being at heart.....if we was flying like Arsenal, he would be playing.

Maybe another fault was not signing a striker in the summer.....but hindsight is an exact science.

I know, its a paradox, But I think, that is the case.....I think he rates him highly, but the Prem and the championship is a huge gap.

[Keyblade]

2 hours ago, PaulC said:

Of course he would. You are telling me we wouldnt have got another 4 points if we had Haaland. 2 against Leeds for a start. We'd have beaten West Ham too 

Not even Haaland would have scored against West Ham. We created absolutely nothing in that game.

[ChesterDad]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Thanks.

but I don't think we are giving enough credit here to SG.

The start to the season has put us in a hole, no doubt about that and that first game is on SG for me.....and he is trying find a way out, against a back drop of injuries to key players...gradually, I think he is, but the price is spectacle, its dull......and he knows it.

I think he does have faith in Archer, but doesn't want to destroy his confidence in a team desperate for points.......I see that as having the lads well being at heart.....if we was flying like Arsenal, he would be playing.

Maybe another fault was not signing a striker in the summer.....but hindsight is an exact science.

I know, its a paradox, But I think, that is the case.....I think he rates him highly, but the Prem and the championship is a huge gap.

TRO - you are one of the most respected posters on VT but I just cannot agree with your evaluation of Gerrard - your like me, we’ve seen us win everything bar the Fa cup.

Gerrard is absolutely useless imo, yes he has suffered injuries to key players but he has shown us nothing to suggest that he has the foggiest idea of what he is doing.

He is as bad as Bruce and the football is very similar .

I’m afraid it’s all on him four square.

We are truly dreadful to watch - this is not turning itself around TRO - he has to go imo, we missed a massive opportunity after Dean was sacked to have got Eddie Howe.

Hindsight is wonderful but no way are we in a better position than when Dean was here - at least there was goodwill around the place 

[Richie k]

Ings is a proven talent and he still has it, he had the most goal contributions last season and was on the bench alot. Some of his assists were world class too, I believe at this stage given a run of games he would do better then Watkins. He would work better in a different formation tho cos he wont have Watkins work rate

[Zhan_Zhuang]

25 minutes ago, Richie k said:

Ings is a proven talent and he still has it, he had the most goal contributions last season and was on the bench alot. Some of his assists were world class too, I believe at this stage given a run of games he would do better then Watkins. He would work better in a different formation tho cos he wont have Watkins work rate

It's possible to offset this by adding the work rate of Buendia, maybe.

Bailey has been poor so we need a change...

[Richie k]

16 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

It's possible to offset this by adding the work rate of Buendia, maybe.

Bailey has been poor so we need a change...

Buendia in the middle of a 3 behind Ings, with Coutinho and Bailey outside. it might suit each of their playing styles a bit more. Wont happen of course.

[the_eristic]

If you look at Ings' numbers, he actually puts in as much or more work than Ollie! He's not as strong aerially or likely to push defenders around, though.

https://fbref.com/en/players/aed3a70f/scout/365_euro/Ollie-Watkins-Scouting-Report

https://fbref.com/en/players/07802f7f/scout/365_euro/Danny-Ings-Scouting-Report

[TRO]

16 hours ago, ChesterDad said:

TRO - you are one of the most respected posters on VT but I just cannot agree with your evaluation of Gerrard - your like me, we’ve seen us win everything bar the Fa cup.

Gerrard is absolutely useless imo, yes he has suffered injuries to key players but he has shown us nothing to suggest that he has the foggiest idea of what he is doing.

He is as bad as Bruce and the football is very similar .

I’m afraid it’s all on him four square.

We are truly dreadful to watch - this is not turning itself around TRO - he has to go imo, we missed a massive opportunity after Dean was sacked to have got Eddie Howe.

Hindsight is wonderful but no way are we in a better position than when Dean was here - at least there was goodwill around the place 

I respect your opinion, and elements of it, I agree with you.

However, many managers have had difficulty in their first 12 months, only to turn it around.....Potter the new kid on the block, took some time, Eddie Howe before his asute signings struggled up until the jan window, but when fit Calum Wilson is a real threat.

I cannot hand on heart say he will.....unless he is given funds to replace players......because so far, I see and inconsistent bunch, with the odd exceptions like Tyrone.

I accept its just my opinion, but I can't see him or anyone else getting Danny and Ollie Scoring......if he and his coaches do, great, but I don't see it.

Ollie Loved Dean, but without Jack, putting them on a plate, He couldn't do it for Dean either.....Danny for me doesn't look like scoring, and not even a threat....just a laboured striker in decline.

It is going to take, one helluva challenge, to move this team forward, without goals ......so I fear SG has a real task on his hands.

but I hope, I am wrong.

 

[ender4]

23 minutes ago, TRO said:

I cannot hand on heart say he will.....unless he is given funds to replace players......because so far, I see and inconsistent bunch, with the odd exceptions like Tyrone.

It is going to take, one helluva challenge, to move this team forward, without goals ......so I fear SG has a real task on his hands.

but I hope, I am wrong.

 

Gerrard has signed 10 players since he got here 12 months ago. 

He has improved ZERO players from the existing squad. 

He has less goals scored than before he was here, less points, worse football, worse defence, worse midfield.  

What has he done which makes you or anyone think he can improve himself or the team?

[TRO]

1 hour ago, ender4 said:

Gerrard has signed 10 players since he got here 12 months ago. 

He has improved ZERO players from the existing squad. 

He has less goals scored than before he was here, less points, worse football, worse defence, worse midfield.  

What has he done which makes you or anyone think he can improve himself or the team?

• 10 players...4 first teamers ( 3 out with long term injuries) 6 players for cover.
• Tyrone Mings is playing better than ever, after releasing the burden of the captaincy, instigated by the manager....Jacob has progressed with maturity....albeit the 2 main strikers see to have regressed, the rest just plateaued out.
• We have accrued more points under SG 1.22 on average....versus Deans 1.14......( Premier league records source)....not great, by any stretch, but challenges your false narrative.
• The football is not great right now, "necessity is the mother of invention".....but I appreciate the arts of defensive football, when required......subjective claim.
• We have scored more goals under SG average 1.25.....versus 1.11 under Dean..( Premier league records source).....again, not great , by any stretch, but challenges your false narrative.
• The midfield once again is in the eye of the beholder.....not great for me, but seen us have worse.

I would say, any team that can muster  2 performances like we did, against one of the best teams in the world, in close proximity......has to have something going on.....on both occasions, with a prevailing wind, we could have won both......what then?

• The game against Bournemouth, was a calamity of gargantuan proportions and yes I do blame SG for that squarely on his shoulders....I think it rocked the club in many ways and it zapped the teams and fans, confidence, which we all know, is hard to build.

As of now, I would accept that SG has not made the difference we was ALL expecting, but managers reserve the right, to have time to right the wrongs, and build the confidence back ,with the support of the fan base.

SG is a young manager, I will be staggered if he regresses as such, so moving forward, you would expect him to progress his knowledge of the job, and deliver close to what we expect.....It was hard to release a manager like Dean, with the connection to the club he had, and right now, it is understandable, if some can't see the rationale of why the club did it......I look at Kamara, Carlos and Coutinho and I can see why, albeit, that is not translating to the pitch at present, I believe, with a few more signings and the marquee ones back, we will progress.

I can't tell someone, it will be alright in the end, thats for every fan to deduce.....but for me, I still believe, hook or by crook, we will come through this.

I can only be wrong.....but it will be a better ride, whilst I'm wrong, if I am.

PS it was also worth noting, that losing Beale was a big disruption with Critchley having to settle in......It was also not lost on me, SG's ability to recruit both, and the loyalty, they both show him.....its is also not lost on me, Beales, performance in the championship,as his own man,  so SG must have an eye for good personnel.

Its either half full, or half empty?

UTV

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by TRO

[a m ole]

Am I in the Steven Gerrard thread?

[Pinebro]

Ings is awful.

What does he actually offer?

[May-Z]

What Ings offers is getting shots on target at the goal. 

The play when Kepa pulled out three good saves was because Ings created movement and got a left foot shot away from a tight angle...whereas Watkins would still be trying to control the ball.

[Pinebro]

Barely scores goals. The thing he is supposed to be good at?