Tammy Abraham

[lexicon]

15 minutes ago, nick76 said:

You do realise we can have more than one quality striker in the squad, most clubs have more than their first team need whether they play 1 or 2 strikers.

To be a top 8 team you need a squad of players not just a first XI, that means having two quality players for each position roughly.  So we could easily have Watkins and Tammy for the strikers position.  We have to stop thinking we only need 11 players.

We spent 20m+ on Wesley. We already have backup there. I agree with you that clubs need depth but they also need harmony and balance within the squad - there's no way Abraham is coming here to be 2nd choice and that's what he would be because Watkins is a better all-round player for our style.

It's not happening, Nick. As I said, I'll take any bet to reflect that. 

 

 

[nick76]

15 minutes ago, lexicon said:

We spent 20m+ on Wesley. We already have backup there. I agree with you that clubs need depth but they also need harmony and balance within the squad - there's no way Abraham is coming here to be 2nd choice and that's what he would be because Watkins is a better all-round player for our style.

It's not happening, Nick. As I said, I'll take any bet to reflect that. 

 

 

As I said it depends how Wes comes back which is something we still don’t know.  We have 16 mins at the end of season and some pictures now but I’m guessing the coaching staff are assessing him now.

See you are still have the small club mentality of first XI…”no way Abraham is coming here to be 2nd choice”.  If we keep thinking like this we’ll never play in Europe again.

[Kiwivillan]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

See you are still have the small club mentality of first XI…”no way Abraham is coming here to be 2nd choice”.  If we keep thinking like this we’ll never play in Europe again.

Absolute rubbish. West Ham finished 10pts above us in 6th with no recognised forward playing decent minutes. Haller only 900mins for 3 goals. Antonio equal top scorer with only 10 goals is a shoe horned forward that's played full back and wing back previous seasons and was injured often

[MotoMkali]

8 hours ago, nick76 said:

This has been talked about over and over, we need a squad not just first XI

We can build a squad without spending 40 mil for a backup. 

[Dave-R]

9 hours ago, lexicon said:

Most pointless thread going. No way we're buying a striker for 30m odd - there's just no point when we have other gaps in the squad that need strengthening. 

[Dave-R]

6 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

We can build a squad without spending 40 mil for a backup. 

[Dave-R]

8 hours ago, nick76 said:

As I said it depends how Wes comes back which is something we still don’t know.  We have 16 mins at the end of season and some pictures now but I’m guessing the coaching staff are assessing him now.

See you are still have the small club mentality of first XI…”no way Abraham is coming here to be 2nd choice”.  If we keep thinking like this we’ll never play in Europe again.

I wouldn't risk next season on Unknown possibilities when the club and the Owners have the power to sort a very good back up for Watkins out. Tammy can easy provide excellent competition for Watkins and who knows may even out him when Watkins goes through a dry spell. There is nothing wrong in having two useful strikers who can pop goals in.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Dave-R

[chrisvilla4]

2 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

Reminds me of blowing up 100's of balloons for my daughters 13th! 

[Phil Silvers]

It's as simple as, does Tammy make our squad better... 100% yes

Would Tammy's ego get in the way of him not being a guaranteed starter... 80% highly likely. 

Would he leave London for the midlands... 80% yes, he has been here there and everywhere scoring goals and had fun, as opposed to struggling to get on the bench and being unhappy at Chelsea. 

Can Deano and Lange persuade him to join a genuine project of breaching the top6... 50% maybe.

Spanner in the works, yes, likely that Arsenal, Spurs and spam MIGHT be interested and and he just stays down in the smoke.

[weedman]

8 hours ago, nick76 said:

As I said it depends how Wes comes back which is something we still don’t know.  We have 16 mins at the end of season and some pictures now but I’m guessing the coaching staff are assessing him now.

See you are still have the small club mentality of first XI…”no way Abraham is coming here to be 2nd choice”.  If we keep thinking like this we’ll never play in Europe again.

I hate this reasoning, being realistic isn't "small club mentality" 

The top teams play 50/60 games a season, a rotation player can comfortably play 30 games, we aren't there yet and simply believing it won't make it true. 

Even teams that have had champions league recently have struggled with backups to established 1st choice players. Spurs haven't had a Kane backup for years, same with Leicester and Vardy (although they were a bit better last season).

Its not football manager or fifa where you can have 2 highly rated players and swap them round every week, the real world doesn't work like that, simply going round telling people that we're a big club doesn't make it so. If tammy was to come here and we rotated him and Watkins he'd probably end up playing the same games for us as he played for Chelsea last season, what's the point for him? When he can go to a Newcastle or West Ham and play every week? 

[nick76]

10 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

Absolute rubbish. West Ham finished 10pts above us in 6th with no recognised forward playing decent minutes. Haller only 900mins for 3 goals. Antonio equal top scorer with only 10 goals is a shoe horned forward that's played full back and wing back previous seasons and was injured often

How often does that happen?  It's rare, so you are banking on that all the stars align and we fluke into a European position rather than preparing a squad ready to get a European spot, it's what small clubs think of doing setting up for midtable and hope they luck on a European spot.  That's not the way it seems these owners want to do it with their ambition they want to be fighting at the higher end of the table.

[nick76]

11 hours ago, weedman said:

I hate this reasoning, being realistic isn't "small club mentality" 

The top teams play 50/60 games a season, a rotation player can comfortably play 30 games, we aren't there yet and simply believing it won't make it true. 

Even teams that have had champions league recently have struggled with backups to established 1st choice players. Spurs haven't had a Kane backup for years, same with Leicester and Vardy (although they were a bit better last season).

Its not football manager or fifa where you can have 2 highly rated players and swap them round every week, the real world doesn't work like that, simply going round telling people that we're a big club doesn't make it so. If tammy was to come here and we rotated him and Watkins he'd probably end up playing the same games for us as he played for Chelsea last season, what's the point for him? When he can go to a Newcastle or West Ham and play every week? 

In your opinion you are saying it's realistic, I dont agree.  I think it's small club mentality.  My "realistic" is that you need two quality options to fight for the striker position....I cant believe that is something that needs to be argued but here we are on this thread.

The top teams......and look how many options they have! You also mentions team that we are trying to get to a position to compete with yet you dont want to invest to try and compete with.  What are you hoping to fluke into a position of competing with them?  Surely you have to set yourself up to compete with them?  Look at those teams squads and compare to ours, the attacking options even if you dont like some of the names even Leicester have Iheanacho and Perez with Vardy, Kane has Bale, Son can play up there, Vinicius...so just because some arent working they have many options.

A bit disrespectful re the football manager dig.  Having two quality strikers is not unreasonable for so many reasons that has been discussed over and over.  As for Tammy, West Ham have already said they cant afford his fee, they cant even afford the 30m fee for Lingard at the moment plus why should they have Antonio and Tammy, you are already putting us on the back foot.  Newcastle have Wilson and Gayle.  Do you just want other teams to be stronger?  As for leaving Chelsea, of course he wouldnt leave if he was getting the same amount of games but those games were before Tuchel came him, he's been frozen out by Tuchel so obviously he will look to leave.

If we want to be a European placed team we have to start acting like it not trying fluke a European place position.

This isnt hard to work out!

Edited July 16, 2021 by nick76

[weedman]

21 minutes ago, nick76 said:

In your opinion you are saying it's realistic, I dont agree.  I think it's small club mentality.  My "realistic" is that you need two quality options to fight for the striker position....I cant believe that is something that needs to be argued but here we are on this thread.

The top teams......and look how many options they have! You also mentions team that we are trying to get to a position to compete with yet you dont want to invest to try and compete with.  What are you hoping to fluke into a position of competing with them?  Surely you have to set yourself up to compete with them?  Look at those teams squads and compare to our, the attacking options even if you dont like some of the names even Leicester have Iheanacho and Perez with Vardy, Kane has Bale, Son can play up there, Bale, Vinicius...so just because some arent working they have many options.

A bit disrespectful re the football manager.  Having two quality strikers is not unreasonable for so many reasons that has been discussed over and over.  As for Tammy, West Ham have already said they cant afford his fee, they cant even afford the 30m fee for Lingard at the moment plus why should they have Antonio and Tammy, you are already putting up on the back foot.  Newcastle have Wilson and Gayle.  Do you just want other teams to be stronger?  As for leaving Chelsea, of course he wouldnt leave if he was getting the same amount of games but those games were before Tuchel came him, he's been frozen out by Tuchel so obviously he will look to leave.

If we want to be a European placed team we have to start acting like it not trying fluke a European place position.

This isnt hard to work out!

Look, I'm not saying I'd say no to having 2 or hell, even 3 or 4 quality options for every position, you don't have to argue with me that it would be great to have virtually limitless options.

Watkins is our first choice. No doubt. He's as integral to our team as Jack. This means that if he's fit he'll play 38 games next season, that's just what Dean Smith will do. Having a different option off the bench or as a bit of cover if he gets injured is essential, that will not be Tammy Abraham at £40m. He's only moving to a club to be first choice. 

You make it seem like teams in Europe "act" like they do because they feel like it. They sign more players because you can add an extra 15 games onto their season. Lots of midweek matches and fixture conjestion. Those players simply would not sign for us becuase we cannot offer them the game time. 

Strutting around telling anyone that'll listen that we're a big club isn't going to magic an extra 15 games onto our season, it's not going to magic up European football that these players want. 

As for do I want other teams to be stronger, of course not, I'd rather every team is forced to sell their entire first team except us and we win the league by 50 points. But it's not remotely realistic, we're not Man City when they first got taken over, we're not just going around signing players with unlimited money so that other teams can't strengthen. 

 

Also also, I'm absolutely not saying that I don't want us to sign an extra £40m striker. That'd be a massive signal of intent for a start, my argument is that we don't have unlimited money, £40 is a big big chunk of our remaining budget, and spunking it on a striker that we don't really need when we're desperately short in other positions is just crazy. If we've got £40m left over after picking up a centre back, a DM improvement on Nakamba and possibly a 10, then we can sign Tammy, I just don't think it's remotely realistic and Tammy would be bottom of the priorities list over those other positions. 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, weedman said:

If we've got £40m left over after picking up a centre back, a DM improvement on Nakamba and possibly a 10, then we can sign Tammy, I just don't think it's remotely realistic and Tammy would be bottom of the priorities list over those other positions. 

See I think striker is priority after buying a CAM.  I've explained why a number of times in this thread.

2 minutes ago, weedman said:

his means that if he's fit he'll play 38 games next season, that's just what Dean Smith will do.

and how did that work out for in the end, Ollie looked tired during parts of the second half of the season and Ollie went two long goal droughts.  All that time we needed an option and we didnt have one.  Also when chasing games, or needing something different on the pitch because how we have started isnt working.  In a perfect world where Ollie is 100% guaranteed fit and on top of his game, of course we dont need anybody else but that's not being realistic, that's almost like FM where the player plays all games but life isnt like that.

5 minutes ago, weedman said:

You make it seem like teams in Europe "act" like they do because they feel like it. They sign more players because you can add an extra 15 games onto their season. Lots of midweek matches and fixture conjestion. Those players simply would not sign for us becuase we cannot offer them the game time.

So you are saying if we met Chelsea's asking price that Tammy would refuse us?  Of course Tammy would join us.

Plus it's not just about the extra games, this about so many things as I've discussed before.  Setting up like a top 10, top 8 team and hoping to fluke a European position is not a good strategy, you need to act like a European place team.

8 minutes ago, weedman said:

But it's not remotely realistic, we're not Man City when they first got taken over, we're not just going around signing players with unlimited money so that other teams can't strengthen. 

but I've not said that either.  Just your list of priorities is different to mine

[thabucks]

The crux of it for me is that I don’t believe Tammy to be more than a £25 mill striker, and who appears to be the type of player who needs regular game  time to be at his most effective. If we had any doubts over Watkins class then I’d understand. As he has proven himself to be more than capable in this league and imo Tammy isn’t the sort of player you bring is as a back up option he needs to be the main man. I’m  not advertise to us to spending £30/£40 mill on the right striker - I just don’t see how Tammy fits into that discussion myself for a multitude of reasons previously   discussed.  

[allani]

12 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

Absolute rubbish. West Ham finished 10pts above us in 6th with no recognised forward playing decent minutes. Haller only 900mins for 3 goals. Antonio equal top scorer with only 10 goals is a shoe horned forward that's played full back and wing back previous seasons and was injured often

Just think what they could have done if they had a decent striker....  Which is kind of the point!

[allani]

2 hours ago, weedman said:

Watkins is our first choice. No doubt. He's as integral to our team as Jack.

I like Watkins but I think you've gone too far with this.  Jack has proved himself to be one of the best talents and then best players in England over the course of several seasons.  In Italy most journalists were amazed that he wasn't starting for England.  Ollie has had a decent first season in the PL.  Very decent maybe.  But Jack is probably the best midfielder I've seen at Villa for 25 years or more.  Ollie isn't in the top 5 forwards (even accounting for the fact that the style of play has evolved).  Yet.  Not saying he won't be.  But I can't see us being in a position of being able to upgrade on Jack (not sure how many upgrades there even are).  However, there are several forwards who would, at the moment, be an upgrade on Ollie.  I don't think he should be "untouchable" yet.  Maybe he'll get there in the next couple of seasons but there's plenty of work to do yet.

[Sulberto21]

I'm in the if it happens it happens if it doesn't it doesn't camp.

 

For more golden nuggets of information or stating the bleeding obvious Im happy to oblige.

[John]

I would like to see Tammy return. He would increase our goal scoring options. If Dean wants him as well, he is willing to come and we can find the money without impacting on any other deals we may have on the boil. Let's do it! 

[Dave-R]

8 hours ago, weedman said:

Look, I'm not saying I'd say no to having 2 or hell, even 3 or 4 quality options for every position, you don't have to argue with me that it would be great to have virtually limitless options.

Watkins is our first choice. No doubt. He's as integral to our team as Jack. This means that if he's fit he'll play 38 games next season, that's just what Dean Smith will do. Having a different option off the bench or as a bit of cover if he gets injured is essential, that will not be Tammy Abraham at £40m. He's only moving to a club to be first choice. 

You make it seem like teams in Europe "act" like they do because they feel like it. They sign more players because you can add an extra 15 games onto their season. Lots of midweek matches and fixture conjestion. Those players simply would not sign for us becuase we cannot offer them the game time. 

Strutting around telling anyone that'll listen that we're a big club isn't going to magic an extra 15 games onto our season, it's not going to magic up European football that these players want. 

As for do I want other teams to be stronger, of course not, I'd rather every team is forced to sell their entire first team except us and we win the league by 50 points. But it's not remotely realistic, we're not Man City when they first got taken over, we're not just going around signing players with unlimited money so that other teams can't strengthen. 

 

Also also, I'm absolutely not saying that I don't want us to sign an extra £40m striker. That'd be a massive signal of intent for a start, my argument is that we don't have unlimited money, £40 is a big big chunk of our remaining budget, and spunking it on a striker that we don't really need when we're desperately short in other positions is just crazy. If we've got £40m left over after picking up a centre back, a DM improvement on Nakamba and possibly a 10, then we can sign Tammy, I just don't think it's remotely realistic and Tammy would be bottom of the priorities list over those other positions. 

No but having a strong strike force in Watkins and Tammy would drastically increase our chances of climbing that Ladder and getting Euro footy.

Now let's be fair Watkins was amazing but even he for a machine needed some rest and a god fair bit after Covid, here comes a player like Tammy. Now you do not have to play Watkins all season long to appreciate the lad, he's a brilliant player but the longer you play him the longer the risk to injury. 

Honestly people on here amaze me because if Watkins gets injured and we've fetched nobody in, Davis and Wesley couldn't back Watkins up and score goals, we will have uproar. You lot against the signing of Tammy will be the first shouting for him or someone of his standards and questioning constantly why we didn't make the moves to sign someone on level terms as Watkins. If we don't sign Tammy and we have to rely on Wesley or Davis, one injury to Watkins that is a season ending crippler for the lad and this place and our fans across the board will be in uproar, so I don't understand why not being someone of capability in like Tammy.

I'm sorry as well this whole Tammy isn't going to accept no2 just doesn't fly when the package is right and football is still being offered. Do youserious think that having either Tammy or Watkins available to Smith,that Smith isn't somehow going to find a way to utilise both of them. I mean even if it's have Watkins play first half and Tammy sub for him and other way round, that's still game time for both of them. It maybe one game one moves to a flank or Smith can play Tammy behind Watkins considering Tammy likes to run in from out of the box,the options are just there and tactical ability and options goes up having them both under your wing. You even seen at times last season how Smith removed a player to put an extra striker on, Tammy and Watkins on at second half, sorry but that's a win win situation with Buendia and Grealish on the pitch as well.

It'd be mental not to bring Tam Tam here.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Dave-R