Team shape, tactics and personnel

[Zero7]

We are poor when teams play anti football and want to put 11 men behind the ball. Teams that come out and play suits us. 

[Adam2003]

On 04/03/2022 at 07:27, TRO said:

We haven't got an effective player in midfield who can dictate play, create the tempo, stay on the ball and delivery killing passes....

John McGinn and Jacob Ramsey are best running with the ball.......They are not play dictators.

I think our front men, struggle with this, and creates an imbalance to the team

We will watch tomorrow how JWP does exactly this, ably assisted by the muscle of Romeu.

until, we fix the balance of our midfield, the debate about Ollie and Danny will rage on.

Have to say I loved watching it.

[paul514]

I have started to think we should move to a 4231

With two midfielders defending in a double pivot with Coutinho in the middle of the three with no defensive responsibilities.

It gets the best out of our wide forwards and full backs too.

[TRO]

21 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

Have to say I loved watching it.

Well. we fixed it, with McGinn letting Romeu, know very early on, it was going to be a battle....how often have we done that, lately?

Yeah, my comments, totally trumped by our super heroes.

Its lovelly when you get these things wrong....never seen their 2 so deep.

Edited March 6, 2022 by TRO

[Made In Aston]

9 hours ago, paul514 said:

I have started to think we should move to a 4231

With two midfielders defending in a double pivot with Coutinho in the middle of the three with no defensive responsibilities.

It gets the best out of our wide forwards and full backs too.

I agree, but we don't even have 1 DM at the moment, let alone 2.

[paul514]

1 hour ago, Made In Aston said:

I agree, but we don't even have 1 DM at the moment, let alone 2.

True, for now though we could just play two in that pivot, and sort it out in the summer.

[Made In Aston]

Judging by the league positions of Leeds and Brighton, I would say possession football doesn't work, unless you have a team of world class players.

Gerrard is looking to impliment a possession-based style, so unless he makes significant upgrades across the squad it might be wasted effort. 

[Dale]

15 hours ago, TRO said:

I saw what you saw and yes the full backs were more reserved in their positioning, hence the midfielders was less inclined to cover, but Cash still pulled a beaut of a ball back from the byline that Ings despatched....so he did get forward.

The main thing for me was the application....The players showed a hunger to be first to the ball, McGinn made his presence felt by his aggressive challenge on Romeu....We showed Southampton we were in for a battle and they wasn't so kean.

When we seized the initiative, we started playing and the gaps opened up......JWP and Romeu their go to orchestrators, were being taken out.......on top of that our 2 front men showed so much urgency and edge to their game, they undone Stevens and Bedarek.

Its been a long time since I saw us, first to the ball, and that clearly unsettled them, the first goal, was a peach of a move and they was clearly rattled.

I thought the application, by all our players was top drawer.

and still SG was discussing improvements with Tyrone and the end of the game......Thats drive and focus.

 

 

Yep, I still want full backs to get forward, but I want it to be dynamic and based on phases of play. Prior to these last couple of games, full backs were based high up the pitch busting a gut to get back when required, now it's switched which is the right way around in my view! 

[Zatman]

5 minutes ago, Dale said:

Yep, I still want full backs to get forward, but I want it to be dynamic and based on phases of play. Prior to these last couple of games, full backs were based high up the pitch busting a gut to get back when required, now it's switched which is the right way around in my view! 

They were also making needless bombing runs forward which has mainly stopped over the last 2 games. Digne was still doing it at Brighton but less than before. Cash has been attacking more sensibly now

[TomC]

On 07/03/2022 at 15:15, Made In Aston said:

Judging by the league positions of Leeds and Brighton, I would say possession football doesn't work, unless you have a team of world class players.

Gerrard is looking to impliment a possession-based style, so unless he makes significant upgrades across the squad it might be wasted effort. 

Sterile possession is meaningless. Brighton is the #1 example of this...the only teams who have scored fewer goals are Norwich, Burnley, and Wolves.

However, if our front 3 keep playing the way they did against Soton, I'm not worried about sterile possession.

[Tommo_b]

I knew having 2 strikers up top was the way to go, it’s time we moved on from this lone striker crap that’s been trendy the last decade or two, bring back strike partnerships!

[sparrow1988]

2 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

I knew having 2 strikers up top was the way to go, it’s time we moved on from this lone striker crap that’s been trendy the last decade or two, bring back strike partnerships!

 

[ender4]

So what formation did we play against Leeds?   and was it the same formation against Southampton and Brighton?

[Made In Aston]

If like to see a few changes to freshen it up for Sunday. Definitely Sanson for Ramsey. Depending on how Phil's energy levels are like, after 2 games in a week, I'd be tempted to start Buendia and bring on Coutinho if needed. 

[Made In Aston]

5 minutes ago, ender4 said:

So what formation did we play against Leeds?   and was it the same formation against Southampton and Brighton?

4-1-2-1-2 diamond for all the games,with a few tactical tweaks based on the opposition. It's like a Brazilian sandwich in midfield with Luiz at the bottom and Phil at the top, with Mcginn and Ramsey the UK farmed meat in the middle. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Made In Aston

[Tommo_b]

54 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

 

Hell yeah!

[gwi1890]

Near £120m worth of talent on the bench last night

[YouUnastanFren]

Just now, CVByrne said:

It was more than just the formation change, he changed how the full backs played. Newcastle were the team to beat us tactically and Watford followed the same blueprint. Block the midfield and force the attack to come from wide (which is the full backs) then counter into the space vacated by them. 

In Gerrards system from later Rangers he wants positional rotation from his front three. So a 1 2 becomes a 2 1 depending on different phases of the game. But Buendia is more a player dropping deeper to pick up the ball and in this congested midfield we had against Newcastle and Watford it was hard to get the ball into the attacking areas. So it was like 4 4 1 1. 

I think the switch to 4 3 1 2 was down to opposition. I can see a 4 3 2 1 returning for more difficult games. I also think if we had a top class CDM the 4 3 2 1 would work better as Buendia can drop deeper to pick up the ball but he needs Ramsey and McGinn getting past him forward. Which they can now do more of due to the change to how full backs play and even more so next season if we have the safety net of a quality CDM. 

The more I think about it the more I see big futures for Buendia & Bailey in the system. Bailey can operate in the 1 2 and 2 1 positional rotation. Buendia can become a key link player dropping deep, think how Kane does this for Spurs dropping into his own half to pick up the ball and 4/5 players are further up field. 

 

Obviously it was more than just a formation change but the 4-3-1-2 has really been quite different in terms of how we progress the ball.

I keep seeing people saying that it's because the fullbacks stopped playing overly attacking but they really haven't. Cash is in the box as much as anyone and has 2G2A in the last 3.

I agree the 4-3-3 with the wide 10s will return but it will be far more difficult for the opposition to prepare for with the new added threat of the 4-3-1-2.

[Dale]

35 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

It was more than just the formation change, he changed how the full backs played. Newcastle were the team to beat us tactically and Watford followed the same blueprint. Block the midfield and force the attack to come from wide (which is the full backs) then counter into the space vacated by them. 

In Gerrards system from later Rangers he wants positional rotation from his front three. So a 1 2 becomes a 2 1 depending on different phases of the game. But Buendia is more a player dropping deeper to pick up the ball and in this congested midfield we had against Newcastle and Watford it was hard to get the ball into the attacking areas. So it was like 4 4 1 1. 

I think the switch to 4 3 1 2 was down to opposition. I can see a 4 3 2 1 returning for more difficult games. I also think if we had a top class CDM the 4 3 2 1 would work better as Buendia can drop deeper to pick up the ball but he needs Ramsey and McGinn getting past him forward. Which they can now do more of due to the change to how full backs play and even more so next season if we have the safety net of a quality CDM. 

The more I think about it the more I see big futures for Buendia & Bailey in the system. Bailey can operate in the 1 2 and 2 1 positional rotation. Buendia can become a key link player dropping deep, think how Kane does this for Spurs dropping into his own half to pick up the ball and 4/5 players are further up field. 

 

The full back thing was what was killing us, so I'm delighted that changed, regardless of the formation we cannot return to that way of playing! 

[Rightdm00]

1 hour ago, YouUnastanFren said:

Obviously it was more than just a formation change but the 4-3-1-2 has really been quite different in terms of how we progress the ball.

I keep seeing people saying that it's because the fullbacks stopped playing overly attacking but they really haven't. Cash is in the box as much as anyone and has 2G2A in the last 3.

I agree the 4-3-3 with the wide 10s will return but it will be far more difficult for the opposition to prepare for with the new added threat of the 4-3-1-2.

The difference now, at least for me, is that Cash is finishing these moves off arriving late in the box after we have created overloads elsewhere on the pitch.  Before he was receiving the early balls miles from the box and having to beat one, sometimes two men before he could put in a cross.