CVByrne Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 hour ago, YouUnastanFren said: Obviously it was more than just a formation change but the 4-3-1-2 has really been quite different in terms of how we progress the ball. I keep seeing people saying that it's because the fullbacks stopped playing overly attacking but they really haven't. Cash is in the box as much as anyone and has 2G2A in the last 3. I agree the 4-3-3 with the wide 10s will return but it will be far more difficult for the opposition to prepare for with the new added threat of the 4-3-1-2. Read my post from previous page about the change to how the full backs play. Previously they were both to get forward and hug the touchline providing width, what this does is spreads the defence as a switch play to the far side is big danger. That in turn is to create space for the 10s and CF to play in. The two 8s are then to cover for the full backs who are now forward. The change has now been to do the "steering wheel" which means if one full back is forward the other hangs back and is to arrive late into the space if t is there or is there for an added man in defence if possession is turned over. This is why Cash is arriving late into the box totally unmarked for his two goals. So yes they are still attacking, they are expected to get forward. The tweak is not to send both of them as far forward at the same time to stretch the defence apart and create space for the central players to play through. If we played Coutinho Bailey and Watkins in a 4 3 2 1 Bailey can be getting into similar positions Ings is but with bursts of pace from deeper for example. I like that formation say away to Chelsea or something when we can pack the midfield a bit more and have added threat of counter attack. Bailey can then switch into a 4 3 1 2 if we need to. Positional rotation which can be called from the sideline or the players deciding themselves. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Its interesting that accepting the shape has changed to 4-3-1-2, in recent games and the full backs have dropped back a bit...........albeit, Cash scores and is MOTM and our centre back emulates Tierry Henry, with a goal. games morph as the initiative ebbs and flows, so formations change as the game develops. I think our mentality and belief in each other, played a huge part in this latest win.....ably orchestrated by PC, pulling the strings. The players have bought in to PC like they did with JG and he is our new go to player. Its a combination of things that has led to this upsurge and all driven by the manager and his coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejs1111 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) nice to see Villa finally playing the same 442 diamond that I use on FIFA. I always win the Premier League and UCL with it. Edited March 11, 2022 by ejs1111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax_Villa Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 It will be interesting to see is if Gerrard stacks our team with superstars or whether he leaves enough holes in the squad for our youth players to fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 On 06/03/2022 at 12:11, paul514 said: I have started to think we should move to a 4231 With two midfielders defending in a double pivot with Coutinho in the middle of the three with no defensive responsibilities. It gets the best out of our wide forwards and full backs too. the issue with the system is you get a 6 / 4 split of defence to attack in that system. Gerrard wants a 5 / 5 and you can only achieve that with the single pivot say a 4 1 4 1 type 4 3 3 or having full backs be the wide attacking players like we do and Liverpool do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, CVByrne said: the issue with the system is you get a 6 / 4 split of defence to attack in that system. Gerrard wants a 5 / 5 and you can only achieve that with the single pivot say a 4 1 4 1 type 4 3 3 or having full backs be the wide attacking players like we do and Liverpool do The defence and DCM have to be exceptional to make that work, that isn’t the case with two defending midfielders and it suits the personnel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 On 07/03/2022 at 20:15, Made In Aston said: Judging by the league positions of Leeds and Brighton, I would say possession football doesn't work, unless you have a team of world class players. Gerrard is looking to impliment a possession-based style, so unless he makes significant upgrades across the squad it might be wasted effort. Brighton are tactically miles better than us but they are just lacking cutting edge and quality. We are fortunate to have a 140m player on loan who is propping us up at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said: Brighton are tactically miles better than us but they are just lacking cutting edge and quality. We are fortunate to have a 140m player on loan who is propping us up at the moment. Brighton play the numbers game. Everything they do is about possession, xG, how can we improve the metrics and the results will follow. To say they’re tactically miles ahead of us isn’t really correct, it’s a different tactic. They often just lack that cutting edge because that’s what the method does. Edited March 12, 2022 by a m ole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 14 minutes ago, paul514 said: The defence and DCM have to be exceptional to make that work, that isn’t the case with two defending midfielders and it suits the personnel I can't see Gerrard moving away from the attacking full backs, we signed Digne for that specific role and Cash has been improving in the final third. A 4 2 3 1 has wide forwards they will often occupy the space the full backs are meant to be in. The full backs only overlap when the wide player cuts in. This does give more solidity with the two midfielders defending but takes them out of the game in an attacking sense. You end up with just 4 attacking players which will struggle against defensive teams. Gerrard wants to play his system which is the attacking full backs and 3 man midfield either flat or with a single central pivot. The front three are to be positional rotation and a 1 2 or 2 1. IF we keep playing this way when we sign a new CDM they need to simply fit into the team and the rest of the team don't need to learn a new style. 4 2 3 1 or 4 3 3 best suits our squad, I agree. This however is not the tactic Gerrard wants to play so he's playing the tactic he wants and style he wants and adding in the missing pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, CVByrne said: I can't see Gerrard moving away from the attacking full backs, we signed Digne for that specific role and Cash has been improving in the final third. A 4 2 3 1 has wide forwards they will often occupy the space the full backs are meant to be in. The full backs only overlap when the wide player cuts in. This does give more solidity with the two midfielders defending but takes them out of the game in an attacking sense. You end up with just 4 attacking players which will struggle against defensive teams. Gerrard wants to play his system which is the attacking full backs and 3 man midfield either flat or with a single central pivot. The front three are to be positional rotation and a 1 2 or 2 1. IF we keep playing this way when we sign a new CDM they need to simply fit into the team and the rest of the team don't need to learn a new style. 4 2 3 1 or 4 3 3 best suits our squad, I agree. This however is not the tactic Gerrard wants to play so he's playing the tactic he wants and style he wants and adding in the missing pieces. I still want the full backs to get forward hence the double pivot to cover them. All our forwards want to to move inside anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 24 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said: Brighton are tactically miles better than us but they are just lacking cutting edge and quality. We are fortunate to have a 140m player on loan who is propping us up at the moment. No. Brighton keep possession for the sake of it, pretty defensive football. Last 3 games we played them they had all the ball and Emi had very little to do. No cutting edge if you never create chances 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 To his great credit, Gerrard has found something that has worked very well against the last 3 teams we've played and has certainly allayed fears that he was out of ideas already etc. The next test for him will be how he adapts to teams that are prepared for and can nullify us. Only Man City and Liverpool really have the luxury of being able to do the same thing over and over, so there will be a time where he'll need to mix it up either before or mid-game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Zatman said: No. Brighton keep possession for the sake of it, pretty defensive football. Last 3 games we played them they had all the ball and Emi had very little to do. No cutting edge if you never create chances Exactly. Also, I remember years back the baggies were lauded for their playing style but still ended up being relegated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 12 minutes ago, lexicon said: Exactly. Also, I remember years back the baggies were lauded for their playing style but still ended up being relegated. Mowbrayball. If Potter is not careful he might go the same way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 36 minutes ago, Zatman said: No. Brighton keep possession for the sake of it, pretty defensive football. Last 3 games we played them they had all the ball and Emi had very little to do. No cutting edge if you never create chances I’m agnostic on the subject but his fan boys would say if he had a good striker and one or two other high quality players in his 11 that would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 8 minutes ago, paul514 said: I’m agnostic on the subject but his fan boys would say if he had a good striker and one or two other high quality players in his 11 that would be different. He paid 20 million for Maupay think even out bid us and has Lallana and Welbeck on big money contracts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, paul514 said: I’m agnostic on the subject but his fan boys would say if he had a good striker and one or two other high quality players in his 11 that would be different. So exactly like us having a Coutinho that ties it all together, they just need a top centre forward to tie it all together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, a m ole said: So exactly like us having a Coutinho that ties it all together, they just need a top centre forward to tie it all together? I feel differently to that summation of our situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Zatman said: He paid 20 million for Maupay think even out bid us and has Lallana and Welbeck on big money contracts 20 million isn't a lot now for a striker and the other two are aged players who aren't good enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, paul514 said: I feel differently to that summation of our situation Great chat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts