It's Your Round Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 It’s madness @OutByEaster?, offside never used to be complicated. The rules have been changed so much nobody knows how to apply them with any level of common sense. It’s the same with handball. Nobody is willing to take a step back, look at the situation and make the decision based on the big picture. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 Struggling to understand how people are reacting negatively to the released audio. I actually found it somewhat comforting because despite the glaringly obvious error of context, the process itself was very good I thought. It was quick and efficient and had their just been that one clarified detail (checking goal/non-goal - which incidentally is the kind of terminology I think and hope they’ll move toward, versus onside/offside) it would have been a great example of it actually working well. As for Klopp ‘demanding’ a replay, he knows as well as the rest of us it won’t be granted and is now just trying to apply pressure on the refs for more favourable decisions going forward. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 Why cabt offside **** be **** offside without all these **** stupid misrepresentations. Same with hand ball. If it hits your hand period in box its a pen. If your standing offside whether your interfering or not your offside. Not so hard for people to understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 50 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Struggling to understand how people are reacting negatively to the released audio. I actually found it somewhat comforting because despite the glaringly obvious error of context, the process itself was very good I thought. It was quick and efficient and had their just been that one clarified detail (checking goal/non-goal - which incidentally is the kind of terminology I think and hope they’ll move toward, versus onside/offside) it would have been a great example of it actually working well. As for Klopp ‘demanding’ a replay, he knows as well as the rest of us it won’t be granted and is now just trying to apply pressure on the refs for more favourable decisions going forward. I didn't think the Audio sounded professional at all. You have 3 or 4 guys in the VAR talking at the same time, using nick names like they are all besties. For me the VAR part of the job needs to be monitored by seperate staff, not referees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 11 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Why cabt offside **** be **** offside without all these **** stupid misrepresentations. Same with hand ball. If it hits your hand period in box its a pen. If your standing offside whether your interfering or not your offside. Not so hard for people to understand Problem is it's not a difficult skill just to aim the ball towards a defender's arm from close range every time you go in the box. You could get 10 penalties a match 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-k Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 4 hours ago, foreveryoung said: I didn't think the Audio sounded professional at all. You have 3 or 4 guys in the VAR talking at the same time, using nick names like they are all besties. For me the VAR part of the job needs to be monitored by seperate staff, not referees. I agree, but besides all that, how can the "confirmation" simply be "check complete" without actually confirming the decision? They wouldn't be in this mess if the ref VAR had said "check complete, he's onside, goal given". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 The last bit of conversation reminds me of this quote The more I think about language, the more it amazes me that people ever understand each other. Kurt Gödel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornso Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 3 hours ago, a-k said: I agree, but besides all that, how can the "confirmation" simply be "check complete" without actually confirming the decision? They wouldn't be in this mess if the ref VAR had said "check complete, he's onside, goal given". That was my takeaway. If they spoke like normal human beings (like your example) as opposed to a bunch of systematic BS out of a process manual there wouldn't have been a mistake. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinebro Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Insane amount of injuries to most teams this season. These 10 extra minutes every game is crazy. This needs to stop. They have to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 20 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: if you want to see how ridiculous the offside rule now is, have a look at Atletico Madrid's equaliser against Feyenoord. A through ball to a striker who is two yards offside is intercepted by a defender running back who slides to get a foot onto it and prevent it getting to the striker - this inadvertently plays it into the path of the second (onside) striker who scores. Given as offside on the field and then overturned by the ref at the monitor on VAR. Now for me, it's offside for a number of reasons, all of which are based on the first striker interfering with play - firstly because the defensive team have played an offside trap and caught him offside, that was their aim and that's what they've done - for me, when a team is playing a high line in order to catch a player offside, if they've successfully caught him, then he's interfering with play - he's the reason that defensive line is where it is - he's the most advanced forward and as such he dictates the position of the back line. If they play him offside, even if the ball doesn't reach him, for me, he's actively influencing the play. Secondly, and perhaps less controversially, when the defender slides and sticks out a leg to divert the ball away from a striker who is offside - the player in an offside position has actively interfered with play - the defender can't just let the ball go to the striker and hope they caught the offside, so he's defending - he's defending because he doesn't know if the player is offside - how you can then claim that the offside player hasn't interfered with play is beyond me. When he touches the ball, he's not making a pass, there isn't a new phase, he's trying to cut out a pass, and sure he's trying to steer it to a safe position, but that's not a new phase of play where the defender had the ball. if he doesn't reach the ball, if he defends badly, then the ball gets through to the striker, and it's offside, if he defends well and gets a touch on it, then the player becomes not offside. The rule is garbage - we need to get rid of the whole active/inactive thing - if you keep a high, organised line and a pass is played to a player, he's offside. Whether he's offside or not shouldn't depend on whether the pass reaches him - you shouldn't need the ball to be offside. Absolutely There's been a few of these now where a defender clearly only touches the ball in the manner that be does because he's trying to stop the ball reaching an opponent in an offside position, but then because he's intentionally touched the ball, the offside is now invalidated and the offside player is onside. It's ridiculous. If a defender has made a play on a ball to stop it getting to you, and you're in an offside position, it must be offside. The worst one I can remember was Salah scoring against Wolves in the FA cup last season. Salah miles offside as the cross is played in, defender throws a desperation header which goes up in the air and lands with Salah who scores, and VAR upholds the goal because the Wolves defender getting a head on it is an intentional play on the ball, despite the fact that he only did so because of Salah being in the box. It's an embarassment that they haven't fixed this rule and it's interpretation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 6 hours ago, Pinebro said: Insane amount of injuries to most teams this season. These 10 extra minutes every game is crazy. This needs to stop. They have to change it. I think they're going hard to stamp time wasting our of the game, and as time goes on players will adjust and added time will get back to more normal amounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 There is just no need for all this in the future. If the VAR realises a **** up in communication then they should have the power to tell the ref to pull it back. This isn’t changing a decision it’s just the failure to communicate a decision. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 On 05/10/2023 at 03:01, a-k said: I agree, but besides all that, how can the "confirmation" simply be "check complete" without actually confirming the decision? They wouldn't be in this mess if the ref VAR had said "check complete, he's onside, goal given". Just be thankful these guys don't work in air traffic control. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 3 hours ago, StanBalaban said: Just be thankful these guys don't work in air traffic control. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 Can Mike Dean on SSN be anymore bias with his mates. If this is how Refs think and act, there's no wonder its a complete f*** up, Merson having a fit! Keeps stating the fact you cannot by law, protocol, stop the game, although no one has mentioned its been done before, like in our game against Leeds when we were given the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Nothing against the guy but love that the ref/VAR gave a red card for this. GK's get away with shit like this far too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 (edited) 20 hours ago, foreveryoung said: like in our game against Leeds when we were given the goal. That's a completely different scenario though, it was an agreement among the managers (and 21 of the players) rather than the officials mandating anything. Agreed with your general point about Mike Dean though, absolutely no value from watching that guy. Edited October 8, 2023 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJCB Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 21 hours ago, foreveryoung said: Can Mike Dean on SSN be anymore bias with his mates. If this is how Refs think and act, there's no wonder its a complete f*** up, Merson having a fit! Keeps stating the fact you cannot by law, protocol, stop the game, although no one has mentioned its been done before, like in our game against Leeds when we were given the goal. I note that in the Chelsea-Burnley game, this exact thing happened without the world imploding. A goal was scored, play then restarted but the VaR officials then told the ref to stop the game so they could finish the VaR check. According to Dean (and some folks in this thread I might add) this is absolute sacrilege and a worse offence than what happened in the Liverpool-spurs game last week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 The interesting thing for me was Dean saying ex footballers can't be involved because they don't know the laws Shows how over complicated they've decided to change football to when a guy who played professional football for 15 years is determined to not understand it enough And more importantly it shows that the laws are not being made by people in football, which not only should they be but they'd be very different if they were the current offside and handball laws were made by someone who's never kicked a ball in their life 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 9 minutes ago, villa4europe said: The interesting thing for me was Dean saying ex footballers can't be involved because they don't know the laws Shows how over complicated they've decided to change football to when a guy who played professional football for 15 years is determined to not understand it enough And more importantly it shows that the laws are not being made by people in football, which not only should they be but they'd be very different if they were the current offside and handball laws were made by someone who's never kicked a ball in their life Well players dont read up on the law or the updates. Not sure even the clubs go through the updates with them Is a video online of Terry telling a story that Mourinho found a loophole in a law that the players didnt know anything about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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