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General officiating/rules


StefanAVFC

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1 hour ago, AndyClarke said:

It's quite sad that the one person on the audio whose (I presume) job is to do as he is told and offer no opinion (the replay guy), is actually the only one who questions the decision!

Not in the audio but the VAR Hub Operations Executive Oli Kohout was also very sensible here. Was saying to delay the game even with the protocol saying it wasn't possible.

Surely he's a boss in that situation? No idea why they didn't listen to him.

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7 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

This is the case, it says as much on the video. The recording is all of the audio from the VAR room but they choose when to broadcast to the ref

Are you sure......before the decision is made you can hear VAR talking about players holding and the refs heavy breathing can be heard at around the same time.

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14 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Not in the audio but the VAR Hub Operations Executive Oli Kohout was also very sensible here. Was saying to delay the game even with the protocol saying it wasn't possible.

Surely he's a boss in that situation? No idea why they didn't listen to him.

You can’t go back and change a ruling once the game is restarted. That is the one part they did correctly 😂

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10 minutes ago, tinker said:

Are you sure......before the decision is made you can hear VAR talking about players holding and the refs heavy breathing can be heard at around the same time.

Just going by their video

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I don’t understand why they couldn’t have just stopped the game and pulled it back to correct the error? They act in the audio like pretending a correct goal didn’t happen is more important than disrupting a nothing passage of play

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8 minutes ago, JPJCB said:

I don’t understand why they couldn’t have just stopped the game and pulled it back to correct the error? They act in the audio like pretending a correct goal didn’t happen is more important than disrupting a nothing passage of play

There is no mechanism in the rules to go back and redo a passage of play. 

 

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20 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

You can’t go back and change a ruling once the game is restarted. That is the one part they did correctly 😂

That’s what the guidelines say but the guidelines also don’t have a situation like what happened outlined. 
 

The fact the head of VAR operations at PGMOL was saying delay delay shows that pretty clearly. The right decision is more important here. Or at least getting the message down to the managers via the 4th official, pause the game, explain what happened and let them decide. 

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25 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

That’s what the guidelines say but the guidelines also don’t have a situation like what happened outlined. 
 

The fact the head of VAR operations at PGMOL was saying delay delay shows that pretty clearly. The right decision is more important here. Or at least getting the message down to the managers via the 4th official, pause the game, explain what happened and let them decide. 

When you say ‘guidelines’ do you mean ‘rule book’?

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1 minute ago, LondonLax said:

When you say ‘guidelines’ do you mean ‘rule book’?

Does it matter which word you use? They disallowed a goal that's perfectly legal in the rulebook. 🤷‍♂️

And even if you take the view they couldn't go back and fix it, the scenario I presented in my 2nd paragraph is entirely within the rule book.

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Seems to be quite a lot of chat r.e: "They say they can't do anything... but they awarded Man Utd a penalty after the final whistle against Brighton".

Who knows - it's a mess.

 

 

However, some of the reaction is so ridiculously OTT (expectedly, I suppose).  It's a mistake.

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6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Does it matter which word you use? They disallowed a goal that's perfectly legal in the rulebook. 🤷‍♂️

And even if you take the view they couldn't go back and fix it, the scenario I presented in my 2nd paragraph is entirely within the rule book.

FA Rule 5 subsection 2:

“The referee may not change a restart decision on realising that it is incorrect or on the advice of another match official if play has restarted or the referee has signalled the end of the first or second half (including extra time) and left the field of play or abandoned the match.”

I don’t get the extra fuss with this case anyway. Referees make mistakes, it happens 🤷‍♂️

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Just now, LondonLax said:

FA Rule 5 subsection 2:

“The referee may not change a restart decision on realising that it is incorrect or on the advice of another match official if play has restarted or the referee has signalled the end of the first or second half (including extra time) and left the field of play or abandoned the match.”

I don’t get the extra fuss with this case anyway. Referees make mistakes, it happens 🤷‍♂️

????

Am I missing something?

How does informing the 4th official and telling the managers what happened breach this rule? (a la Leeds/Villa and us walking it into the net?)

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3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

????

Am I missing something?

How does informing the 4th official and telling the managers what happened breach this rule? (a la Leeds/Villa and us walking it into the net?)

None of your previous posts talked about managers. 

The game was paused at the next stoppage in play (a throw-in) and the on field referee’s were informed of what had happened. 

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11 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

????

Am I missing something?

How does informing the 4th official and telling the managers what happened breach this rule? (a la Leeds/Villa and us walking it into the net?)

"Hi Ange, it seems we've mistakenly disallowed a Liverpool goal which should have stood.  Could you just let them score please?"
"Bonza - no problem mate"

Sure thing :D 

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6 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

None of your previous posts talked about managers. 

The game was paused at the next stoppage in play (a throw-in) and the on field referee’s were informed of what had happened. 

 

48 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

That’s what the guidelines say but the guidelines also don’t have a situation like what happened outlined. 
 

The fact the head of VAR operations at PGMOL was saying delay delay shows that pretty clearly. The right decision is more important here. Or at least getting the message down to the managers via the 4th official, pause the game, explain what happened and let them decide. 

😕

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

"Hi Ange, it seems we've mistakenly disallowed a Liverpool goal which should have stood.  Could you just let them score please?"
"Bonza - no problem mate"

Sure thing :D 

Would be down to him to decide, but I don't see the issue in letting him know.

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The fact is that in grand scheme of things you’re gonna get far more criticism for not intervening to allow a perfectly legal goal than interrupting a meaningless passage of play in the interests of the precious rule book. No common sense was applied 

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Just now, StefanAVFC said:

 

😕

Would be down to him to decide, but I don't see the issue in letting him know.

Because it's a nonsense.  You don't put the onus on the manager after making a balls up.

What should happen is that people accept a mistake has been made.  Apparently this is on a par with some heinous crime and all officials involved are corrupt and should lose their jobs :D 

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Just now, JPJCB said:

The fact is that in grand scheme of things you’re gonna get far more criticism for not intervening to allow a perfectly legal goal than interrupting a meaningless passage of play in the interests of the precious rule book. No common sense was applied 

But it then sets a precedent.

Every single missed and/or given big decision can be questioned by the managers with this being a past example of being able to stop the game, go back and re-apply a ruling.  It'd open a huge can of worms; even if it makes sense as a "one off".

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Just now, bobzy said:

Because it's a nonsense.  You don't put the onus on the manager after making a balls up.

What should happen is that people accept a mistake has been made.  Apparently this is on a par with some heinous crime and all officials involved are corrupt and should lose their jobs :D 

How is it a nonsense?

There are precedents in the game for sportsmanship based on kicking the ball out, or even on field mistakes being made.

If a goal has been wiped out due to a human error (not a poor decision or subjective call), and spotted immediately, I'm sure any manager would want to know.

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