villa4europe Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 11 hours ago, VillaParkAvenue said: Not sure those stats are that bad, attacking players get dispossessed more than others. For the league as a whole some top players got dispossessed a lot this season: Yeah I'll play devil's advocate and guess that Buendia has a lower passing accuracy than John mcginn, Emi is blatantly a better passer of the ball but he's trying through balls and lower percentage passes that don't come off TAA gives the ball away more than any other player in the league doesn't he? Doesn't make him a bad player who can't pass water that's just the role klopp gives him dispossession stats are kind of the same, those that run at full backs almost should be high, you'd be worried if it was a central midfielder 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Yeah I'll play devil's advocate and guess that Buendia has a lower passing accuracy than John mcginn, Emi is blatantly a better passer of the ball but he's trying through balls and lower percentage passes that don't come off TAA gives the ball away more than any other player in the league doesn't he? Doesn't make him a bad player who can't pass water that's just the role klopp gives him dispossession stats are kind of the same, those that run at full backs almost should be high, you'd be worried if it was a central midfielder Had no idea so googled. Buendia 79.8% vs Mcginn 78.9% Surprised Emi that high. Near 80% for attacking mid is really good especially as he tries a lot of high risk killer passes. Watkins and Bailey near the bottom of squad with 70.7% and 70.6% Edited February 4, 2023 by Kiwivillan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Yeah I'll play devil's advocate and guess that Buendia has a lower passing accuracy than John mcginn, Emi is blatantly a better passer of the ball but he's trying through balls and lower percentage passes that don't come off TAA gives the ball away more than any other player in the league doesn't he? Doesn't make him a bad player who can't pass water that's just the role klopp gives him dispossession stats are kind of the same, those that run at full backs almost should be high, you'd be worried if it was a central midfielder Kevin De Bruyne passing is 79.7% this season, Buendia is 79.8% KDB usually has one of the lowest stats on the City team and gets the most assists Edited February 4, 2023 by Zatman 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 55 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Yeah I'll play devil's advocate and guess that Buendia has a lower passing accuracy than John mcginn, Emi is blatantly a better passer of the ball but he's trying through balls and lower percentage passes that don't come off TAA gives the ball away more than any other player in the league doesn't he? Doesn't make him a bad player who can't pass water that's just the role klopp gives him dispossession stats are kind of the same, those that run at full backs almost should be high, you'd be worried if it was a central midfielder I would say McGinn tries a lot of through balls when played on the front left of the midfield box. The difference for.me is McGinn is stronger and faster and holds on to the ball better and carries it better then Buendia. I am starting to think a fully fit and firing McGinn starts ahead of Buendia. It could be that our best starting line up doesn't have any if the three Grealish replacements. Though I do prefer Bailey to Traore, but not by much. Edited February 4, 2023 by Philosopher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted February 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 4, 2023 On 02/02/2023 at 16:13, MotoMkali said: Literally does now also mean figuratively 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 5 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Indubitably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 3 hours ago, one_ian_taylor said: Yes, surely needs context - disposessions as a percentage of touches or similar. Without this, you might well say e.g. that Peter Shilton has a much higher number of top flight goals conceded than Orjan Nyland I agree. I was just showing that what he provided was complete BS and not really relevant at all. Plus even with a stat like dispossessions you could also argue that bad passes which don't count as dispossessions are just as bad or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 3 hours ago, Zatman said: Kevin De Bruyne passing is 79.7% this season, Buendia is 79.8% KDB usually has one of the lowest stats on the City team and gets the most assists Similar types of player in the sense that, they are always trying things, and it doesn't come off, but when it does... it can be brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 20 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Similar types of player in the sense that, they are always trying things, and it doesn't come off, but when it does... it can be brilliant. Two best players in the league for spotting that killer pass, IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, one_ian_taylor said: Yes, surely needs context - disposessions as a percentage of touches or similar. Without this, you might well say e.g. that Peter Shilton has a much higher number of top flight goals conceded than Orjan Nyland You mean something like this? This measures on average the amount of times a player gets disposessed every 100 touches. In Bailey's case its 6.91 times. In this graph I'm only showing players who've been disposessed at least 30 times this season to try and fit all the data points on the chart so there's a lot more that I'm not showing. Regardless, its clear that Bailey is much closer to the top of the chart than the bottom. If we took all the data into account without any kind of filtering whatsoever, he'd be in the top 6 or 5th percentile of all players who stepped on the pitch this season. Edited February 4, 2023 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 minute ago, Laughable Chimp said: You mean something like this? This measures on average the amount of times a player gets disposessed every 100 touches. In Bailey's case its 6.91 times. In this graph I'm only showing players who've been disposessed at least 30 times this season to try and fit all the data points on the chart so there's a lot more that I'm not showing. Regardless, its clear that Bailey is much closer to the top of the chart than the bottom. I'd like to see what it is under Unai. Have to think we keep possession better under Unai. And Bailey gets the ball more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, MotoMkali said: I'd like to see what it is under Unai. Have to think we keep possession better under Unai. And Bailey gets the ball more. 19 dispossessions to 206 touches in the PL since Unai took over. Leads to 9.22 disposessions per 100 touches. So its actually higher under Unai. Also keep this back on track with the thread, Traore's ratio is 2.22 disposessions per 100 touches for his entire time in the pl with us. Edited February 4, 2023 by Laughable Chimp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 48 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: You mean something like this? This measures on average the amount of times a player gets disposessed every 100 touches. In Bailey's case its 6.91 times. In this graph I'm only showing players who've been disposessed at least 30 times this season to try and fit all the data points on the chart so there's a lot more that I'm not showing. Regardless, its clear that Bailey is much closer to the top of the chart than the bottom. If we took all the data into account without any kind of filtering whatsoever, he'd be in the top 6 or 5th percentile of all players who stepped on the pitch this season. You got one for a % of dispossession per take on? That's the key stat IMO, might be easier to measure successful take ons per game as a comparison I don't want a winger with a really low dispossession stat because he's either not confident enough to take his man on or he's under instruction to push his man deeper (kw) rather than beat him (looking at you grealish) I want Bailey and Bertie to attack the full back, if that means losing a ball a couple of times per game then so be it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Just now, villa4europe said: You got one for a % of dispossession per take on? That's the key stat IMO, might be easier to measure successful take ons per game as a comparison I don't want a winger with a really low dispossession stat because he's either not confident enough to take his man on or he's under instruction to push his man deeper (kw) rather than beat him (looking at you grealish) I want Bailey and Bertie to attack the full back, if that means losing a ball a couple of times per game then so be it Uh, I could calculate the stat for that, it would just be a bit meaningless at least if I'm using fbref's stats. This is because they don't count dispossessions if the player lost the ball whilst he was trying to take on another player. But I can calculate the percentage of failed take-ons compared to the number of attempted take ons. Tried to get all the names in there, this is the best I can do. I'm only including the ones with minimum 30 attempted take-ons. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Laughable Chimp said: 19 dispossessions to 206 touches in the PL since Unai took over. Leads to 9.22 disposessions per 100 touches. So its actually higher under Unai. Also keep this back on track with the thread, Traore's ratio is 2.22 disposessions per 100 touches for his entire time in the pl with us. Puts an end to @Delphinho123's view that Bailey has better decision making than Traore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 8 minutes ago, Tom13 said: Puts an end to @Delphinho123's view that Bailey has better decision making than Traore. Depends what you class as a dispossession tbh. I don’t really buy into the stats and even when I posted them, I just found it funny that Bailey and Buendia were in our top 3 for that statistic. Both Bailey and Traore aren’t good enough for us. Traore especially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 10 minutes ago, Tom13 said: Puts an end to @Delphinho123's view that Bailey has better decision making than Traore. I slightly disagree Says to me that Bailey is more direct, he's looking to take his man on whereas traore is more Conservative and looking to pass And then you ask what do you want your winger to do? Flip the stat on its head and then based on that 60% failed take on stat does the end result mean that Bailey beats his man more times than traore does which ultimately should then raise a stat for crossing attempts which then leads to a stat for chances created which should then lead to assist stats Which all of that can again then be spun for the likes of Adama Traore who used to have a low disposession rate, a high successful take on rate but a stinker of a crossing rate which most of us probably expect (not sure how those stats sit now he's completely gone to shit) Or in other words stats are fun...but ultimately can tell you a lot of different things depending on the argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted February 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 4, 2023 3 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said: You mean something like this? This measures on average the amount of times a player gets disposessed every 100 touches. In Bailey's case its 6.91 times. In this graph I'm only showing players who've been disposessed at least 30 times this season to try and fit all the data points on the chart so there's a lot more that I'm not showing. Regardless, its clear that Bailey is much closer to the top of the chart than the bottom. If we took all the data into account without any kind of filtering whatsoever, he'd be in the top 6 or 5th percentile of all players who stepped on the pitch this season. Yeah, that's a much better stat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 We're definitely going to need him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 Training with the group. Would be surprised to see him against City or Arsenal but Everton seems like a good target for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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