PeterSw Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Sad to see him go as he could have been a good squad player but fair play to him saying that he wants to go and be a starter week in week out rather than a squad player. Who knows, the buy back fee could be used one day and he'll be back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Interesting that people think we are somehow selling off our young talent and replacing them with old "has beens" - given that Pau Torres and Youri Tielemans are 26 and Moussa Diaby and Nicolo Zaniollo are both 24. All international players who have competed (and mainly been successful) in European competitions. All of whom (injury willing) could help us play at the top level for 5 - 7 years (assuming that 31 is past-it). And somehow that's a worse position to be in than keeping a player who is attracting the interest of ..... Hull City. I mean give me the choice of winning silverware this year (any of the three cups we are in this season would do) or winning nothing and playing a load of kids in the hope that maybe in 2 or 3 seasons they might all become as good as the players in our current starting XI (which would be highly unusual given the rate at which kids at other clubs succeed) and I know which option I am choosing. Some people are worried that Zaniolo is a risk due to his knee issues 2 years ago (since when he's had no problems with knee injuries by the way) and yet this is a player that at 19 won the Serie A Young Player of the Season and was identified as one of the best talents to emerge in Europe that year - yet we should instead be giving more of a chance to a 21 year old who has yet to play in the PL, European competition or for a major international team. I mean maybe in 3 years time JPB scores the winning goal for England in a World Cup final and I look ridiculous - but the chances of Zaniolo having a positive impact on our ambitions as a club are significantly higher and if JPB improves to the point that the above scenario might come true then we will almost certainly have activated his buy back clause and he'll score that goal whilst representing our club. And for all the - yeah but Jacob might not have got a chance to show that he's one of the best prospects around, there are multiple cases of players that have looked great for us in the youth set-up and then disappeared. Jacob would probably have been sold to West Ham (if he was breaking through now), he'd have spent a few months finding his feet with them, then he'd have started performing to a level that pricked our attention, maintained that for a few months and then we'd almost certainly be activating his buy-back-clause. It would have cost us a few quid but in the meantime we'd have finished in the top 8 and qualified for Europe twice and so more than earned that money back in extra prize money. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Pre season suggested that Unai was really keen on this guy, so a bit surprised with this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Just now, Wainy316 said: Pre season suggested that Unai was really keen on this guy, so a bit surprised with this one. Sounds like it's JPB (or his agent) pushing for it for more guaranteed playing time rather than Unai trying to ship him out. With a low buyback it's not necessarily the worst plan for all parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 45 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said: £5m. **** off. Just keep him for the ECL Good deal. Think giving him time in Pre Season has boosted his value. These young players want to play and they will get few mins at Villa. The buy back clauses are good ideas. 14m + 20m + 5m that's some good income for we sell AJ, Archer and Philogene. Also means we're likely to sign one more attacker if they leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pez1974 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 If JPB wants to play - then good for him. If he is happy to agree a buy-back, then I would say his intentions are entirely good. This is not the same as the guy who hobbled off for Chelsea yesterday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Ah, so this was all on the player side rather than Unai/Monchi. Fair enough… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Only have to look at what's happening with Kienan Davis. After his Forest loan, could argue we might have got a decent fee for him at the time but guessing the club wanted too much and now Villa are probably going to be lucky get anything for him really. No point keeping youngsters around for the sake of it and putting buy-back clauses in helps protect the club if they do go on to good things. Would Philogene get much minutes in the Premier League as it stands? I'd be fairly confident he'd be getting the odd 10 mins off the bench here and there but not much more then that apart from the cups which the player himself doesn't see as enough to keep him happy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 37 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Only a bigger talent because purslow had to publicly call him best player of his generation in this country. He finally did something against west ham. JPB has got less opportunities so i think the low fee is probably reason for that but with a small buy back clause its low risk Highly rated 18-year-olds who haven't proven themselves can be worth more than a guy who has proved that he still needs to work on his end product. Mystique can add value but if they don't hit the ground running, then that value gets lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 As per Gregg Evans, Unai wanted to keep JPB around, but JPB wants playing time, that's why it's never fair to just judge a situation from one angle. It's understandable from these youngsters viewpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 I guess that we as fans think that playing for Villa in any capacity would be good whereas these players are professional footballers and want whats best for them. Shame but totally understandable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villatillidie95 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Good luck to bidace, it’s good that he wants playing time and realistically he probably Dosent back himself to usurp some of the new players we have signed, and that’s fair enough. as he is not invested in villa and didn’t come through the traditional academy system, it’s understandable to want out for another professional club a good player but if we’re honest, not a world beater. I think he is leaving an incredible opportunity on the table and would have got game time with all our games this season, but he will back himself to shine at hull and then either get promoted or get a move elsewhere in the prem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 8 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: As per Gregg Evans, Unai wanted to keep JPB around, but JPB wants playing time, that's why it's never fair to just judge a situation from one angle. It's understandable from these youngsters viewpoints. Can see both sides. JPB has a lot of competition so can see why he wants to go 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Mic09 said: Aston Villa fans : £80m for a footballer? The world has gone crazy, no one is worth that much! Also Aston Villa fans : £5m for a player that has done nothing in the professional game and we have no idea if he will ever be anywhere above championship level? Madness! Give us £25m! I'm not saying that. I'm saying £5m is basically a rounding error in today's game financials. We'd be better off keeping him when we're losing so many players to injury as he offers a spark and even Zaniolo is known for injuries, a cheap backup like Jaden is worth keeping. I'm sure the buyback is reasonable, but he can offer us something this year and I think for £5m it's worth keeping him about (or we're horribly close to FFP and having to get Zaniolos loan fee back in, which may make sense but be a bit worrisome if it's that close to the line) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said: I'm not saying that. I'm saying £5m is basically a rounding error in today's game financials. It's not, it's a very good senior players yearly salary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeypuzzle Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) The club has a duty of care to academy players as well. Keeping him, just in case, could have a negative affect on his whole career, compared to letting him go and play regularly. He may develop into a much better player that we can buy back cheaply, compared to if he stayed here in case five other players get injured all at once in the same position. Edited August 21, 2023 by Monkeypuzzle 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogen Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 People get too precious over losing decent youngsters, if he was at an elite level he'd have made a breakthrough by now so if he wants gametime immediately it's in everyone's interest to part ways. Think Aaron Ramsey is the only one who might make the step up to the level we're aspiring for and the buy back covers that eventuality so I'm all on board with cashing in on these lads. There really aren't many that make the push from promising to top 6 level so as nice as it is to have the fairytale story of youth to leading the team it just doesn't happen enough to have these all sit around hoping for an opportunity 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, Monkeypuzzle said: The club has a duty of care to academy players as well. Keeping him, just in case, could have a negative affect on his whole career, compared to letting him go and play regularly. He may develop into a much better player that we can buy back cheaply, compared to if he stayed here in case five other players get injured all at once in the same position. Exactly, which is why Monchi is thrashing out that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Football is all about romanticism and academy products bring out that emotion, but the cold hard facts are if we do not find ways to win trophies, we and our Crown Jewels are easy pickings for the self entitled Sky 6. If we want to upset that quango, have to be ruthless and not accept second best anywhere. Better to lose starlets with buy-back clauses than stars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 10 hours ago, Philosopher said: Disappointed with us selling him. For me it sends the wrong message. You're looking at this from the perspective of a fan, but footballers want to play football first and foremost. Whether that's at the Villa or somewhere else, players want to play. No talented kids would want to join an academy of a club that isn't open to finding routes to regular football when they're in their early twenties. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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