Championship 2020-2021 Thread

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, Nabby said:

Current championship clubs meeting to discuss a 18mil a year wage cap to be implemented from next season 

That will certainly stuff us if we go down..

it wouldn't surprise me.....they all want to sustain the status quo for the elite.....no gate crashers please.

The quicksand of the championship wants to keep you down.

Edited July 19, 2020 by TRO

[Nabby]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

it wouldn't surprise me.....they all want to sustain the status quo for the elite.....no gate crashers please.

The quicksand of the championship wants to keep you down.

It's jealousy as they belive clubs going down have an unfair advantage ...tell that to the likes of Stoke , Birmingham , Boro etc all recent PL clubs all struggling.It's short sighted as well as they themselves could be promoted , then relegated and find themselves having to massively cut wages.Also how would it even work if you have players contracted and you can't sell them what are you supposed to do to get within the wage budget.

[OutByEaster?]

34 minutes ago, Nabby said:

Current championship clubs meeting to discuss a 18mil a year wage cap to be implemented from next season 

That will certainly stuff us if we go down..

It would have a couple of effects, particularly on our sales and our youngsters.

In so far as I understand it, they're talked of giving relegated teams an allowance for their first seasons, a little like the parachute money, but a higher wage entitlement for a period of years so that they can make the adjustment and so that every relegated team doesn't become a fire sale.

They've also suggested that they'll put a nominal value to any contract signed by a player while he was at the team in the Premier league at £500k per season - that means that all of the players we signed last season would be valued at £500k a year rather than their full wage. That will have a big impact on sales - do you sell Tyrone Mings for £30m when you can only spend a very limited wage amount on a replacement, or do you keep him knowing he's listed under a nominal value for as long as his current contract runs?

They've also said that players under 21 might not count at all - which suddenly makes them much more valuable - Villa armed with £80m of Grealish money but not far off their wage limit might not be able to buy Benrahma and pay him £60k a week - but we would be able to buy Sibley and Bogle and Mbeumo knowing that their wages would count as zero until they turn 21 - and we'd also have a big encouragement to integrate the likes of Barry and Chukwuemeka and Kesler and Philogene-Bidace - because having them in the squad would mean we might be able to pay another player a bigger wage.

There's a whole raft of complications and agreements still to be made and it doesn't look like the Championship are going to be ready to agree anything right now - I'd be reasonably confident it won't be in by the start of the season - but the Championship at board level is a madhouse, so never say never.

 

 

[Nabby]

10 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

It would have a couple of effects, particularly on our sales and our youngsters.

In so far as I understand it, they're talked of giving relegated teams an allowance for their first seasons, a little like the parachute money, but a higher wage entitlement for a period of years so that they can make the adjustment and so that every relegated team doesn't become a fire sale.

They've also suggested that they'll put a nominal value to any contract signed by a player while he was at the team in the Premier league at £500k per season - that means that all of the players we signed last season would be valued at £500k a year rather than their full wage. That will have a big impact on sales - do you sell Tyrone Mings for £30m when you can only spend a very limited wage amount on a replacement, or do you keep him knowing he's listed under a nominal value for as long as his current contract runs?

They've also said that players under 21 might not count at all - which suddenly makes them much more valuable - Villa armed with £80m of Grealish money but not far off their wage limit might not be able to buy Benrahma and pay him £60k a week - but we would be able to buy Sibley and Bogle and Mbeumo knowing that their wages would count as zero until they turn 21 - and we'd also have a big encouragement to integrate the likes of Barry and Chukwuemeka and Kesler and Philogene-Bidace - because having them in the squad would mean we might be able to pay another player a bigger wage.

There's a whole raft of complications and agreements still to be made and it doesn't look like the Championship are going to be ready to agree anything right now - I'd be reasonably confident it won't be in by the start of the season - but the Championship at board level is a madhouse, so never say never.

 

 

So its fairly complex then and reality of getting it up and running for a new season starting in 6 weeks or so seems impossible 

On loss's , due to covid there is talk of less money to spend for clubs so if I understand it correctly if someone wanted Mings but said Covid as wiped us out we can only afford 15mil .That would mean a loss on him and effect FFP so we would be better off not selling him .Jack on other hand as  homegrown player even taking 5mil would be profit as there was no outlay to stat with.

[OutByEaster?]

Just on a rebuild and the potential for a turnover of players, for me - if we go down and come back up - then the only players I'd realistically see as being part of the squad that would start Premier League 2021-22 would be: 

• Heaton (at 36)
• Nyland
• Targett 
• Hause
• Engels
• Konsa
• Guilbert
• Wesley
• Nakamba
• El Ghazi
• Hourihane (at 31)
• Samatta
• Davis

The other 12-14 players we'd need to start Premier League season 2021-22 if we bounced straight back would need to join the club or come through our youth system in the next twelve months.

We're still a team that hasn't had a properly balanced squad in years = people who think we can add one or two and win the Championship are a ways off it in my opinion.

(I'm assuming we lose Grealish, Mings, Luiz and McGinn)

[OutByEaster?]

2 minutes ago, Nabby said:

So its fairly complex then and reality of getting it up and running for a new season starting in 6 weeks or so seems impossible 

I hope so!

Quote

On loss's , due to covid there is talk of less money to spend for clubs so if I understand it correctly if someone wanted Mings but said Covid as wiped us out we can only afford 15mil .That would mean a loss on him and effect FFP so we would be better off not selling him .Jack on other hand as  homegrown player even taking 5mil would be profit as there was no outlay to stat with.

I think if we're selling to the kind of clubs we're expecting to be selling to, the impact of CV-19 will be less apparent. I also think if we're likely to be making losses on any player with three years left, we'll keep him.

 

[Nabby]

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Just on a rebuild and the potential for a turnover of players, for me - if we go down and come back up - then the only players I'd realistically see as being part of the squad that would start Premier League 2021-22 would be: 

• Heaton (at 36)
• Nyland
• Targett 
• Hause
• Engels
• Konsa
• Guilbert
• Wesley
• Nakamba
• El Ghazi
• Hourihane (at 31)
• Samatta
• Davis

The other 12-14 players we'd need to start Premier League season 2021-22 if we bounced straight back would need to join the club or come through our youth system in the next twelve months.

We're still a team that hasn't had a properly balanced squad in years = people who think we can add one or two and win the Championship are a ways off it in my opinion.

(I'm assuming we lose Grealish, Mings, Luiz and McGinn)

For comparison Fulham currently in the Play off's only had 4 players start today who played in PL

Newcastle's 2016/17 promotion team was built on 87mil worth of sales and 57mil of purchases. As you say people who think we will be playing in championship with virtually the same team are well off.It's going to be yet another rebuild which will inc players good enough to get us up but not good enough to play in PL 

[Villaphan04]

I just looked around to see if iI could find any other things about the proposed wage cap etc. From everything I read, It looks like at least half of the Championship clubs already have a wage bill over £18 million. Not sure how the EFL would be able to force all of those clubs to abide by the cap. I also would then theorize that it wouldn't receive the votes necessary to be implemented as well. 

[OutByEaster?]

My favourite oddity on the wage cap thing is that Stoke could have been relegated to League 1 and ended up with a wage cap for the entire team that was less than they pay Kevin Wimmer.

 

[zab6359]

45 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Just on a rebuild and the potential for a turnover of players, for me - if we go down and come back up - then the only players I'd realistically see as being part of the squad that would start Premier League 2021-22 would be: 

• Heaton (at 36)
• Nyland
• Targett 
• Hause
• Engels
• Konsa
• Guilbert
• Wesley
• Nakamba
• El Ghazi
• Hourihane (at 31)
• Samatta
• Davis

The other 12-14 players we'd need to start Premier League season 2021-22 if we bounced straight back would need to join the club or come through our youth system in the next twelve months.

We're still a team that hasn't had a properly balanced squad in years = people who think we can add one or two and win the Championship are a ways off it in my opinion.

(I'm assuming we lose Grealish, Mings, Luiz and McGinn)

I look at that list and think there are 8 that shouldn't be on it if we have any chance of competing should we come back up, if all those are present I think we would have a similar season to this! We need a huge rebuild starting with the manager.

That rebuild needs to start this summer if it means a couple of seasons in the Championship so be it!

[Enda]

A lot of people in this thread are exaggerating the quality of Premier League players.

Burnley will stay up, and Ashley Westwood has played every match for them. Brighton will survive, and Trossard is their second top scorer. Not everyone is Kevin De Bruyne. The best players for teams that don’t get relegated are, by definition, Premier League quality.

[Demitri_C]

This has to be the stupiest idea by the efl.

By having this cap your making the gap between the premier league and the efl even bigger. If a club comes up they will go straight back down as their squad will be so poor it will need so much work to try stay up.

Honestly its fecking stupid because fulham huddesfield and Cardiff are not even in the top two 

[OutByEaster?]

44 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

This has to be the stupiest idea by the efl.

The EFL is choosing between having a league that produces teams capable of playing in another league, or having a league where every team survives. Championship teams will go bust in the next season or two, it's an almost impossible division to be in financially given the gap in the TV money - they're trying to protect their product - they don't care about the Premier league - they're creating a Championship that's almost a stand alone. It's a huge difference to way things are, and if they get their way, for me it would be the biggest change to the game since 1992.

 

[Rob182]

6 hours ago, zab6359 said:

I look at that list and think there are 8 that shouldn't be on it if we have any chance of competing should we come back up, if all those are present I think we would have a similar season to this! We need a huge rebuild starting with the manager.

That rebuild needs to start this summer if it means a couple of seasons in the Championship so be it!

Which 8 players don’t you think should be there?

I think all of those players listed are good enough to be part of a Premier League squad.

Surely the fact that we’re still mathematically able to survive with 2 games to go, after losing McGinn, Wesley and Heaton for 1/2 a season, shows that those players are capable of being part of a Premier League squad. 

It’s the fringe players like Lansbury on 30/40k p/w that should be nowhere near our plans. Not that list of, mostly young players, with room to improve and having showed potential at different points in the season.

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

The EFL is choosing between having a league that produces teams capable of playing in another league, or having a league where every team survives. Championship teams will go bust in the next season or two, it's an almost impossible division to be in financially given the gap in the TV money - they're trying to protect their product - they don't care about the Premier league - they're creating a Championship that's almost a stand alone. It's a huge difference to way things are, and if they get their way, for me it would be the biggest change to the game since 1992.

 

The problem is you will still see teams go bust as they will be receiving such little revenue regardless. 

A wage cap is a terrible idea your going to have clubs who are relegated in massive financial trouble. 

Its the tv companies and the pls fault paying the likes of man utd liverpool stupid money that they dont need and pwanuts to the lower league clubs who need it.

There is going to be massive problems in the next few years 

 

[KenjiOgiwara]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

This has to be the stupiest idea by the efl.

By having this cap your making the gap between the premier league and the efl even bigger. If a club comes up they will go straight back down as their squad will be so poor it will need so much work to try stay up.

Honestly its fecking stupid because fulham huddesfield and Cardiff are not even in the top two 

Yep. It's hard to grasp. Tbh I like the general idea of this, but you have to get the PL on board or it's doing what you said. 

[Zatman]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

This has to be the stupiest idea by the efl.

Think allowing Xia to buy Villa without any money was quite stupid, never mind this Wigan fiasco

[MaVilla]

If you want to be fair, it should be salary cap at a % of turnover.

Anything spent above that, the owner needs to put that in bond to cover it for the duration of that cost, so it can't bankrupt the club. (If the owner leaves for example)

For example, we want to sign Messi (lol ye i know), if it will cost us 50m over 2 years, but we are already at our salary cap, the owners must place 50m cash in a bond for the duration of messi's 2 year contract, thus ensuring there is no risk to the club. (This money cannot be removed for the duration of the bond/as long as messi is at the club)

You can't just have an arbitrary salary cap for all clubs, especially one that low, if that's the case we had may as well separate the premiership from the rest of divisions permanently.

The other issue it will cause is it would reduce the marketability of the league, as the cap is implemented, the quality of the teams overall will reduce, meaning less interest from marketing etc.

 

So.....in review, the way I would do it for all clubs is:

1) salary cap at % of turnover.

2) additional salary costs are allowed, but anything above the cap, the owners must put the entirety of that cost in bond to cover the cost for the life of the contract, to ensure zero risk to the club. (The money must be the owners money, not the clubs or against a club asset)

Edited July 19, 2020 by MaVilla

[KenjiOgiwara]

8 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Just on a rebuild and the potential for a turnover of players, for me - if we go down and come back up - then the only players I'd realistically see as being part of the squad that would start Premier League 2021-22 would be: 

• Heaton (at 36)
• Nyland
• Targett 
• Hause
• Engels
• Konsa
• Guilbert
• Wesley
• Nakamba
• El Ghazi
• Hourihane (at 31)
• Samatta
• Davis

The other 12-14 players we'd need to start Premier League season 2021-22 if we bounced straight back would need to join the club or come through our youth system in the next twelve months.

We're still a team that hasn't had a properly balanced squad in years = people who think we can add one or two and win the Championship are a ways off it in my opinion.

(I'm assuming we lose Grealish, Mings, Luiz and McGinn)

Speaks volumes that people except Wesley to be here. I agree however. I wish we could retain the others, but guess this is how football is. 

Mings and McGinn I've had some hope of retaining, but Grealish's silence on the club has kinda showed he's already out IMO, but we'll see. So much for being a Villa fan eh. Days of players like Le Tissier and Totti are over. 

[MaVilla]

22 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Speaks volumes that people except Wesley to be here. I agree however. I wish we could retain the others, but guess this is how football is. 

Mings and McGinn I've had some hope of retaining, but Grealish's silence on the club has kinda showed he's already out IMO, but we'll see. So much for being a Villa fan eh. Days of players like Le Tissier and Totti are over. 

Or del piero when he stayed with juventus when the got relegated for that match scandal stuff.