Carney Chukwuemeka

[villa4europe]

3 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

What is it you don’t agree with, are you saying Dortmund changed their business model? Below some more recent articles for your perusal.

I don’t know if they’ll sign Carney, possibly not. And I’m absolutely not saying he should go. Are you suggesting they will sign him, refuse to give him game time but still keep him around for years?

Facts: Dortmund have become famous for playing youngsters. The club is using this fame to attract players. Some players don’t fit in quickly enough and become disappointed.

https://www.squawka.com/en/hit-or-miss-dortmund-replace-transfer-sales/

https://theathletic.com/3167608/2022/03/08/attracting-young-stars-is-part-of-the-bundesligas-identity-but-it-can-have-adverse-effects/

“It’s part of our DNA,” says Borussia Dortmund managing director Carsten Cramer. “We won’t be able to sign the big stars, but we will educate them. Everyone knows that it’s the only alternative to be competitive. We don’t have much money, we are not owned by an investor or a government like some Premier League clubs. So we have to be creative.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/dec/02/working-class-hero-jude-bellingham-gets-real-love-from-dortmund

What I'm arguing is that dortmund are snapping up lots of talent akin to chuk from around Europe and giving them game time because they're not

I definitely 100% do not believe he will play more games next season at dortmund than at villa

I think the dortmund link is lazy journalism from English media because we all enjoyed their model from 4 or 5 years ago and heralded it as something good by a "big" team that our big teams don't do

And then more than anything else, because I want him to stay, I think I'm trying to shoot down the lazy journalism because there's a huge negative overreaction to this kind of bollocks from villa fans, the "Billy big bollocks" stuff because he's linked to Dortmund

I don't buy in to any of it personally - I don't think he wants to leave, I don't think dortmund will come calling, I don't think he's arrogant - I just simply believe he's biding his time because his value will increase with age, March 22 he's a starter for England u19s and worth £x per week, October 2022 he gets a game for England u21s he's worth more per week - nothing malicious, nothing anti villa, nothing even negative, just some sound common sense and belief in himself, he will sign a 5 year deal before Xmas and it will be more than what is on the table now because he will be worth more than what is on the table now 

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

50 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

All of those articles are from when farve was the manager and zorc was the sporting director 

And the one article lists the "wonderkid factory" and says auba, gundogan, kagawa, dembele, that's 5 years ago! And chuk is not where they were in his career 

Just look at them this season, all this smoke up their ass from the UK media its not there anymore, they have 2 world class youngsters who could play for anyone in the world and the media think they give all this talent a chance and bleed in youngsters... They've not under Marco Rose it's that simple 

The notion that he should go to Dortmund because he will get more of a chance isn't true

And of those, only Dembele was a teenager when they signed him, and one with a full season of Ligue 1 football at that. Aubameyang was 24!

Dortmund's transfer policiy really is overhyped, the only players that really fit the mold of it are Sancho and Bellingham(even he's a stretch with it, he also had a full season under his belt), all the rest are typical big club signings, just plucking the best players from smaller teams.

I'm convinced Dortmund aren't actually interested in Chukwuemeka, it's just an easy and lazy link for the media, I believed the Leipzig one last summer much more because it wasn't as obvious.

[villa4europe]

3 minutes ago, MessiWillSignForVilla said:

And of those, only Dembele was a teenager when they signed him, and one with a full season of Ligue 1 football at that. Aubameyang was 24!

Dortmund's transfer policiy really is overhyped, the only players that really fit the mold of it are Sancho and Bellingham(even he's a stretch with it, he also had a full season under his belt), all the rest are typical big club signings, just plucking the best players from smaller teams.

I'm convinced Dortmund aren't actually interested in Chukwuemeka, it's just an easy and lazy link for the media, I believed the Leipzig one last summer much more because it wasn't as obvious.

Completely agree

Might be hard for some to admit on here given where he's come from but for me bellingham is the best teenager in football, he's playing that well for Dortmund, he's not comparable to chuk in any way, him getting games there is not a reflection on dortmund and their policies it's that he is that good, same with Haaland, they are genuinely the best 2 players at the club 

[VillaParkAvenue]

27 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

What I'm arguing is that dortmund are snapping up lots of talent akin to chuk from around Europe and giving them game time because they're not

I definitely 100% do not believe he will play more games next season at dortmund than at villa

I think the dortmund link is lazy journalism from English media because we all enjoyed their model from 4 or 5 years ago and heralded it as something good by a "big" team that our big teams don't do

And then more than anything else, because I want him to stay, I think I'm trying to shoot down the lazy journalism because there's a huge negative overreaction to this kind of bollocks from villa fans, the "Billy big bollocks" stuff because he's linked to Dortmund

I don't buy in to any of it personally - I don't think he wants to leave, I don't think dortmund will come calling, I don't think he's arrogant - I just simply believe he's biding his time because his value will increase with age, March 22 he's a starter for England u19s and worth £x per week, October 2022 he gets a game for England u21s he's worth more per week - nothing malicious, nothing anti villa, nothing even negative, just some sound common sense and belief in himself, he will sign a 5 year deal before Xmas and it will be more than what is on the table now because he will be worth more than what is on the table now 

Ok, we could stop arguing then because I agree with most of that. I don’t think there’s anything great about them or their model, and agree he would most likely be better off here.

Going there he would take a risk because  they would probably have less patience with him.

But Dortmund still use the fact they’ve become famous for youth development to attract youth. Why wouldn’t they.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Weren't the likes of Haaland, Bellingham, and Sancho ( Not so much ) bossing it for SENIOR teams, regardless of respective levels when they were signed by Dortmund?

Putting Chukwuemeka in the same bracket is false equivalency.

Regardless of whether he's meant to be the next Paul Pogba, better, or whatever, fact is, his best achievements currently come in the form of Reserve team football and the lower levels of International Football.

The Jude Bellingham Dortmund signed, would probably have been starting for us, or darn near close it, at the time he was signed, at 16 years old!

And he would probably be one of the first names on the team sheet RIGHT NOW.

If there is any remote truth in the notion that he's asking 50 k per week, he should probably start rapping. lol

Edited March 25, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[John]

2 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

The thing is if they scout one they might notice another and be interested in them as well. Bidace, Chuk, Ramsey and Iroegbunam could all be interesting even to Dortmund. 

Let them be as interested as they want in the above, we could have been interested in taking Bellingham off their hands last season, but that wasn't going to happen either. What we need to do is to tie our best young players down by signing them up to a reasonable length of contract. I'm sure the club are well aware of that and has tried to do this with Carney, but while you can lead a horse to water,  you can't make it drink (or his agent, come to that). If a young player has had his head turned or has been tapped up, then they will go, if they want to and there is not much the club that brought them through is able to do about it. I think young players could develop just as well under SG, as they could do anywhere else and Ramsey (the elder) has shown that if you are good enough you will get first team games at Villa Park. Could it be that SG sees little point, in talking about a player that may have made it clear, that he has no intention of signing another contract with us?  

[barry'sboots]

2 hours ago, villa4europe said:

What I'm arguing is that dortmund are snapping up lots of talent akin to chuk from around Europe and giving them game time because they're not

I definitely 100% do not believe he will play more games next season at dortmund than at villa

I think the dortmund link is lazy journalism from English media because we all enjoyed their model from 4 or 5 years ago and heralded it as something good by a "big" team that our big teams don't do

And then more than anything else, because I want him to stay, I think I'm trying to shoot down the lazy journalism because there's a huge negative overreaction to this kind of bollocks from villa fans, the "Billy big bollocks" stuff because he's linked to Dortmund

I don't buy in to any of it personally - I don't think he wants to leave, I don't think dortmund will come calling, I don't think he's arrogant - I just simply believe he's biding his time because his value will increase with age, March 22 he's a starter for England u19s and worth £x per week, October 2022 he gets a game for England u21s he's worth more per week - nothing malicious, nothing anti villa, nothing even negative, just some sound common sense and belief in himself, he will sign a 5 year deal before Xmas and it will be more than what is on the table now because he will be worth more than what is on the table now 

It is also a great bargaining chip for him with Stevie G to getting game time.

Substitution time.  JJ looks knackered.  Stevie is thinking Sanson or Chukie?? ... Sanson is probably off in the summer and I need to keep Chukie happy so he signs a new contract (Christian loves him and he is the posterboy for our academy!!) ... no brainer who is coming on! 

[AV82]

6 hours ago, CVByrne said:

Sancho was given guarantee's on playing time in his contract with Dortmund. I'm sure that's what Carney is after

To be fair it's in Dortmund's best interest to get them playing since they make so much wonga when they move on.

[VillaAlex]

Carney needs to look at JJ if he wants it enough and he's good enough he will become a regular for us and continue up the England youth squads. Alternatively he may feel he can best achieve that elsewhere but we already have a clear pathway which he can emulate.

[CVByrne]

He hasn't got on the pitch in a while as Bailey and Traore are fit again. This surely not helping the case for staying, where is he going to get minutes? He wants to be starting games. People want to have a go at Carney but I'd do exactly what he's doing right now. Want to have guarantee's over playing time.

Next season we'll be adding a CDM which means he has to fight for mins against JJ, McGinn and Luiz for an 8 position. It's not going to happen. Coutinho will sign permanently and then Carney is fighting with him and Buendia and Bailey for a 10 place and sometimes we'll play with only a single 10.

He simply can't be afforded the amount of time on the pitch he wants where he can be given that and Champions League football too at Dortmund for example. The only slim hope we have is if he'd be open to signing and going on loan, ideally to Germany (Archer too). But a loan to a newly promoted Prem side might be an option too.

But it just looks to me like the best option for the player is going to Dortmund. We get a fee and a sell on clause and we all just move on.

[DaveAV1]

2 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

He hasn't got on the pitch in a while as Bailey and Traore are fit again. This surely not helping the case for staying, where is he going to get minutes? He wants to be starting games. People want to have a go at Carney but I'd do exactly what he's doing right now. Want to have guarantee's over playing time.

Next season we'll be adding a CDM which means he has to fight for mins against JJ, McGinn and Luiz for an 8 position. It's not going to happen. Coutinho will sign permanently and then Carney is fighting with him and Buendia and Bailey for a 10 place and sometimes we'll play with only a single 10.

He simply can't be afforded the amount of time on the pitch he wants where he can be given that and Champions League football too at Dortmund for example. The only slim hope we have is if he'd be open to signing and going on loan, ideally to Germany (Archer too). But a loan to a newly promoted Prem side might be an option too.

But it just looks to me like the best option for the player is going to Dortmund. We get a fee and a sell on clause and we all just move on.

So the kid isn’t good enough to get into our mid table team but will get plenty of game time at a German CL club? Last summer we were on the other side of the fence with the Arsenal lad who hadn’t signed a new contract and his existing contract was being run down. Eventually he signed, for them, it’s all just part of a game agents play. I don’t know exactly what’s going on but there’s a strong possibility that he’ll sign a new contract for us, there’s still over a year to run on his existing deal.
 

This notion that we’ll roll over and have our tummy tickled by Dortmund or anyone else for that matter isn’t overly likely under our present regime. In the past yes I agree that’s exactly what would happen. I’m not saying he’ll definitely sign a new deal, but we’ll handle it professionally and get the best we can out of the situation. I’d like to think that Chuck would be inspired by playing alongside top quality players and would back himself to get playing time, because that’s the attitude he’ll need no matter wjere he plays if he wants a career at the top level. 

[CVByrne]

4 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

So the kid isn’t good enough to get into our mid table team but will get plenty of game time at a German CL club? Last summer we were on the other side of the fence with the Arsenal lad who hadn’t signed a new contract and his existing contract was being run down. Eventually he signed, for them, it’s all just part of a game agents play. I don’t know exactly what’s going on but there’s a strong possibility that he’ll sign a new contract for us, there’s still over a year to run on his existing deal.
 

This notion that we’ll roll over and have our tummy tickled by Dortmund or anyone else for that matter isn’t overly likely under our present regime. In the past yes I agree that’s exactly what would happen. I’m not saying he’ll definitely sign a new deal, but we’ll handle it professionally and get the best we can out of the situation. I’d like to think that Chuck would be inspired by playing alongside top quality players and would back himself to get playing time, because that’s the attitude he’ll need no matter wjere he plays if he wants a career at the top level. 

That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying he needs a season where he will perform below the level of our other options in the position but that improves him as a player and the season after next he's more of a finished article to compete with those players. We can't afford to give him the playing minutes to learn when his performances will be a lower level than other more experienced players. 

Dortmund can offer him that time to learn as their plan is play him, develop him and sell him. Their league is less competitive than the Prem so he can get lots of time on pitch in games they will still win comfortably. 

[Zatman]

7 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

 

Dortmund can offer him that time to learn as their plan is play him, develop him and sell him. Their league is less competitive than the Prem so he can get lots of time on pitch in games they will still win comfortably. 

Dortmund have dropped points in 9 games from 27 this season and have 12 points less than the team in the same position in the Premier League

[villa4europe]

58 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying he needs a season where he will perform below the level of our other options in the position but that improves him as a player and the season after next he's more of a finished article to compete with those players. We can't afford to give him the playing minutes to learn when his performances will be a lower level than other more experienced players. 

Dortmund can offer him that time to learn as their plan is play him, develop him and sell him. Their league is less competitive than the Prem so he can get lots of time on pitch in games they will still win comfortably. 

Keep saying this... But they're not and they don't! 

What you've said there is the myth of dortmund, it's completely untrue 

We have more teenagers playing for us and on our bench than they do

Edited March 26, 2022 by villa4europe

[John]

5 hours ago, CVByrne said:

He hasn't got on the pitch in a while as Bailey and Traore are fit again. This surely not helping the case for staying, where is he going to get minutes? He wants to be starting games. People want to have a go at Carney but I'd do exactly what he's doing right now. Want to have guarantee's over playing time.

Next season we'll be adding a CDM which means he has to fight for mins against JJ, McGinn and Luiz for an 8 position. It's not going to happen. Coutinho will sign permanently and then Carney is fighting with him and Buendia and Bailey for a 10 place and sometimes we'll play with only a single 10.

He simply can't be afforded the amount of time on the pitch he wants where he can be given that and Champions League football too at Dortmund for example. The only slim hope we have is if he'd be open to signing and going on loan, ideally to Germany (Archer too). But a loan to a newly promoted Prem side might be an option too.

But it just looks to me like the best option for the player is going to Dortmund. We get a fee and a sell on clause and we all just move on.

Could it be that SG is loathe to play him, until he commits his future to us? I think that both Traore and Bailey, need to show SG that they have something to offer him, if they are to have a future with us after this season and those minutes they have had off the bench of late, have not been very persuasive, as yet. I suspect that had Carney indicated that he was still considering signing another contract with us, he would have had more game time lately.  

[messi11]

23 hours ago, villa4europe said:

What I'm arguing is that dortmund are snapping up lots of talent akin to chuk from around Europe and giving them game time because they're not

I definitely 100% do not believe he will play more games next season at dortmund than at villa

I think the dortmund link is lazy journalism from English media because we all enjoyed their model from 4 or 5 years ago and heralded it as something good by a "big" team that our big teams don't do

 

Tier 1. Well I wish Carney  all the best on his next adventure 

[TRO]

On 25/03/2022 at 12:42, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

No but Gerrard also said they've done everything from their side to try and get a deal done.

So I don't believe that for a second.

Yeah, I guess so.

[hippo]

Maybe Stevie G will give him some prem starts

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

32 minutes ago, hippo said:

Maybe Stevie G will give him some prem starts

He doesn't deserve a Prem start right now, so that would be stupid.

Unless you reckon we should drop Coutinho to start him?

Edited March 26, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[mikeyp102]

7 hours ago, messi11 said:

 

Tier 1. Well I wish Carney  all the best on his next adventure 

Why is this person tier 1? 
 

Also just because they are having talks doesn’t mean it’s a done deal.