Generic Virus Thread

[bickster]

27 minutes ago, sidcow said:

The way I had my flu jab was very different his year. 

It was a walk in, give your name, get injected, walk away through a different door affair.  I have to say I was really impressed with how quick and smooth it was. 

I was from the in door to to exit door in about 3 minutes. It was a team of 2, one person with the laptop to ask who I was and record it, and one person to jab me. 

That team of 2 could have done probably 20 people an hour.  So 140 in a standard working day, 980 per 7 day week.  Let's say 1000 per week from one team. 

Apparently the average doctor currently has 2,000 registered patients so technically the average doctor with a 2 man team could see all of their patients injected in 2 weeks. 

OK maybe I am being optimistic with my 3 minutes.  Even if you doubled that to 6 minutes that's all patients in a month. 

In addition they are talking about setting up loads of temporary vaccination centres.  You could have 10 or 15 lines operating in various locations around each doctors surgery. 

I think the administration of it is easily possible.  I think the main constraint will be how quickly it can be manufactured and distributed. 

I think they have a million or so already made and ready to go so they can get a start and see how quickly the manufacturer can keep up. 

C'mon, think about it, this lot don't have many mates in GP Surgeries

[Demitri_C]

4 hours ago, snowychap said:

I think you missed the point of my post, Dem.

Let's hope no one (with anything close to any power with regard to the situation) suggests a program of forced vaccination.

I agree it should be optional. But there are already rumours and i say just rumours at this stage that they will try say if you wish to travel abroad you cannot unless you have had the vaccine.

This would cause major issues i think

[It's Your Round]

3 hours ago, Genie said:

Boris: 3 separate family bubbles will be able to meet over Christmas.

People on the news: Our 4 families always meet Christmas and now with these rules it means one family has to miss out which is really upsetting.

 

You know if it was 5 families they’d find someone pissed off about their usual 6 family gathering being disrupted.

Yep, and if it was six families, Boris still wouldn’t be able to see each of his kids. 

[Davkaus]

11 minutes ago, It's Your Round said:

Yep, and if it was six families, Boris still wouldn’t be able to see each of his kids. 

Alas.

[bickster]

16 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I agree it should be optional. But there are already rumours and i say just rumours at this stage that they will try say if you wish to travel abroad you cannot unless you have had the vaccine.

This would cause major issues i think

What if the country you are visiting insists on you being vaccinated?

Given that this already happens in some countries and has for a long time, what is the difference?

UK says to leave the country, you must be vaccinated - Boo Hiss

Another country says to come here you must be vaccinated - Oh Ok Then because I really want to come to your country

[TrentVilla]

10 hours ago, bickster said:

This is ludicrous. Even if the vaccinations were available at that level of supply (seriously doubt this), that means the entire population being vaccinated in ten days, can you imagine the logistics behind that kind of operation. It's not just a case of sticking a needle in someone. It needs to be recorded and that normally means two people per patient, then those results will need to be fed into computers (anyone with knowledge of NHS systems will understand this isn't as easy as it sounds), GP's surgeries informed etc etc.

Why do they set themselves up for the fall? It's like it's inbuilt to make impossible promises

It wasn't a million a day it was a million a week that was being talked about but even that is wildly optimistic

[Demitri_C]

15 minutes ago, bickster said:

What if the country you are visiting insists on you being vaccinated?

Given that this already happens in some countries and has for a long time, what is the difference?

UK says to leave the country, you must be vaccinated - Boo Hiss

Another country says to come here you must be vaccinated - Oh Ok Then because I really want to come to your country

Yeah i know bicks. This is going to be a issue i think. But lets say 30-40% of the uk population decides they dont want to take it and say im not travelling. Flights are half full tourism drops then thatas going to cause a massive issue. 

Airlines cant afford to lose anymore more money 

[bickster]

7 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

It wasn't a million a day it was a million a week that was being talked about but even that is wildly optimistic

Thanks, didn't see it, was reacting to the post. Did they realise that the population is 66 mil and there are only 52 weeks in a year and everyone needs two doses and they don't know how long the vaccination lasts?

Thought not

[bickster]

Just now, Demitri_C said:

Flights are half full tourism drops then thatas going to cause a massive issue. 

Not for the British Hospitality Industry it isn't

[Demitri_C]

11 minutes ago, bickster said:

Not for the British Hospitality Industry it isn't

True but the airlines eill suffer badly

[chrisp65]

I just can’t get myself emotional about the winners and losers between people that want to travel overseas without a vaccine, and airline tourism.

I can’t help feeling in a world of pandemics and global warming, both sides are way down my list of shits to give. 

[TrentVilla]

4 minutes ago, bickster said:

Thanks, didn't see it, was reacting to the post. Did they realise that the population is 66 mil and there are only 52 weeks in a year and everyone needs two doses and they don't know how long the vaccination lasts?

Thought not

You want detail? Will a three word slogan do?

Obviously no details seem to be forthcoming but my assumption is that they won't be looking to give it to the whole population.

For a start it won't be mandated and I'd also be surprised if they give them to children given that they seemingly aren't impacted by the virus.

So I'd assume the actual number will be a lot lower than 66 million, if you take the under 18's out for instance it reduces it by 14-15m. 

 

[TheAuthority]

16 hours ago, snowychap said:

I think it depends what one means by 'largely back to normal'.

I'm not sure that some of the measures introduced will be dropped that quickly (even allowing for the likely clamour that @HanoiVillansuggests) or even at all.

Even if the vaccines have all of their desired effects and work brilliantly, I don't think that you'll see the pre-covid world completely return.

I see this speculation a lot. Why and what in your view will change? I see subtle changes in my industry. But I also imagine that once the majority of folks in the West are  inoculated I can see a months of meals out, family trips, partying and full on revelry. Another summer of love for 2021.

Interested to hear why this won't happen. Will people decide they prefer being miserable hermits stuck at home 24-7? 

[TheAuthority]

10 hours ago, snowychap said:

Let's hope no one (with anything close to any power with regard to the situation) suggests a program of forced vaccination.

I don't think any government had suggested this. However to get a visa to enter most African and South Asian countries you need a copy of your Yellow Fever vaccination form. To go to school and University you need prove you to have had certain vaccinations. To apply for a Green Card in the US you have to take an HIV test. (I'm not sure if being positive disqualifies you from getting a green card but you have to take the test.)

Forced vaccination doesn't exist. But trying to function in society in the US without having taken certain health precautions is hard.

Edited November 24, 2020 by TheAuthority

[snowychap]

54 minutes ago, TheAuthority said:

I see this speculation a lot. Why and what in your view will change? I see subtle changes in my industry. But I also imagine that once the majority of folks in the West are  inoculated I can see a months of meals out, family trips, partying and full on revelry. Another summer of love for 2021.

Interested to hear why this won't happen. Will people decide they prefer being miserable hermits stuck at home 24-7? 

I don't think it's something that you can nail down in advance, i.e. I can't say that one specific measure will stay in place.

At a guess, perhaps the mask wearing will become more prevalent (as a wider reaction to any potential respiratory disaease), perhaps requirements for taking temperature tests and so on to enter establishments when there's a large case of a particular bug going round. The App(s) take up may not have been universal but the idea of checking in to places and venues with QR codes would be a good bet to become quite standard (possibly required by places on some sort of claim of H&S/fire safety/security/licensing or maybe by way of commercial incentives offered by stores, &c.).

I think it will definitely take some people a lot of time to revert to a world of close contact or proximity. I'm not talking about those who ignore that now but the people who still jump ten feet out of everyone's way just when they're passing them in the street. I think the psychology of that will stay with a lot of people.

I also think that we in western countries (and especially in the UK) will now have to live with the serious consequences of emergency laws being made on the hoof and handed out like diktats - even supposedly liberal western democratic governments will not give up this weapon lightly. I'm not saying that it will necessarily be with ill intent but it has the potential to be that way and even if it isn't, it's no way to make law - see yesterday's announcement by Johnson which is now taken as though it is law but which still has to become law and the history of the guidance versus the law suggests that the law will look slightly different, at least, next week to what is in Government guidance as of yesterday. This is no way to govern a country and to keep a country's citizens informed.

It's also possible that something that is really minor that has occurred as a result of Covid measures becomes a really big thing and I'm not sure that even a vaccine hitting the streets, being successful and stopping Covid in its tracks will have come in time to prevent a permanent to change to some parts of the economy (the hospitality industry, in particular). Also, add on to that the issues surrounding contracts given out during the pandemic in the UK (and probably/possibly elsewhere - though I haven't seen particular reports on that) and that we're very unlikely to see people being held to account on it, the consequences of which could be even more serious than just the huge sums of money filched by the Gov's chums, i.e.. a future where this largely becomes impossible to deal with and thus attracts sorts that are even worse than the current lot.

People will largely regard the world as similar to what went before without bothering about or noting the small, incremental changes - what is retained from this year - or caring too much about the really big, important changes - because they're 'politics' and too many think that 'politics' has nothing to do with them and their lives, still.

Sure, 2021 may well be some roaring twenties style deal socially but even if it is, I'm not sure that itself doesn't come without a large number of dangers and the capacity to change the world away even more from what it was before.

It may be trivially true to say that neither the present or the future are the past but, as people keep on harking back to even the relatively immediate past as 'normal', that there will be changes now and in future and that temporary adjustments may and likely will become permanent has to be pointed out.

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, TheAuthority said:

I don't think any government had suggested this.

Well, Dem's post kind of hinted at it and there has been talk in political circles about it as a possibility. I think a few MPs (maybe to get a bit of air time but still) have also mooted it.

1 hour ago, TheAuthority said:

Forced vaccination doesn't exist.

It may not exist in most countries at present but it has existed in the past (in the UK and elswhere) and the issues with it are multifarious.

1 hour ago, TheAuthority said:

But trying to function in society in the US without having taken certain health precautions is hard.

Sure and that's obviously more of a carrot approach. One may make life more difficult, even close to impossible, if one doesn't get a particular vaccine or treatment but if that's still a choice (even on with potentially serious social and economic consequences for the individual involved) then it is, indeed, a choice.

Edited November 24, 2020 by snowychap

[snowychap]

 

[fightoffyour]

11 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

I agree it should be optional. But there are already rumours and i say just rumours at this stage that they will try say if you wish to travel abroad you cannot unless you have had the vaccine.

This would cause major issues i think

Well travel is a choice, and it may be that airlines insist people choose to be vaccinated before they are allowed to fly.

I reckon that would help more with the uptake of the vaccine than it would hinder the travel industry, as it may be more damaging if people don’t feel safe enough to fly.

This comes with the caveat that the vaccine would have to be affordable and available for people to be able to get it before travelling.

[Genie]

3 hours ago, snowychap said:

 

The numbers of obviously obscene but it’s not really comparable. You couldn’t get Boots to do the amount of tests the UK needs every day (without enormous investment).

I don’t doubt lots of money has been wasted but it’s not a case of just scaling up £120 a test.

[Stevo985]

11 minutes ago, Genie said:

The numbers of obviously obscene but it’s not really comparable. You couldn’t get Boots to do the amount of tests the UK needs every day (without enormous investment).

I don’t doubt lots of money has been wasted but it’s not a case of just scaling up £120 a test.

I don't think anyone is suggesting it's that simple. But it gives you an idea of the vast difference between the two numbers.

The numbers may be totally valid, but with the cronyism going on I think people just want a breakdown of the costs.